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Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by Miragedriver, Jul 16, 2014.
Very well put Gatekeeper!
I'm going to give you a solid "like" here jimmyjames30x30, for being honest enough to give me a shot,, and I will remind you that the US does not take China for granted in any way, in fact the US fought alongside the Chinese in WWII, against the Chinese backed North Koreans and the Chinese back North Vietnamese, so NO, the US does NOT thing China is/are tree hugging weaklings that can't fight back....
I think you underestimate our commitment and our connection to Taiwan? it's NOT about sticking a stick in China's eye, but it is about defending an ally, and we will do that if necessary...
I'm very disappointed myself in the current turn of events, so hopefully cooler heads will prevail...
Likewise, you appear to underestimate Chinese commitment and connection to Taiwan? It's about China defending her birth right. She will absolutely do it when push comes to shove, it is the law.
The OS you are referring to is a mobile device OS (smartphone, tablet, etc.), I am asking about a PC OS.
Look up NeoKylin.
The part about "the election of President Xi marking a Chinese retreat from a growing trust and friendship, to a more adversarial stance" is very inaccurate, and primarily based on a revisionist US-hegemonic viewpoint. It more accurately describes US behavior towards practically everyone else since its unforced misadventures in the 2000's ranging from the invasion and occupation of Iraq to the global financial crisis, the direct consequences of both are still ongoing.
Objectively none of the PRC's claims or goals changed since Xi Jinping came to power. Also most of the PRC policies achieving a degree of success unacceptable to the US under Xi began before his time in charge whether it is economic, technological, military development, or defending longstanding territorial claims. The PRC's comprehensive power happened to grow to a critical mass under Xi where it challenges and/or merely offends US hegemonic behavior and desire at a time when the US elite also happens to feel insecure domestically.
This comes from US misadventures being not only in foreign policy but also in domestic policy where the US had clearly shifted away from an overall pattern of "a rising tide lifts all boats" to "everyone else must pay for the reigning elite's mistakes and maintaining their advantaged status". The US should really examine this attitude permeating both its domestic and foreign policies.
I believe you. I believe you speak honestly for yourself. Trust me, we Chinese people appreciates good Value system like honesty, trust and honor. Our value system are deeply Confucian regardless of what party are in control of the government, or what regime is in power. And the majority of Chinese appreciates honor and commitment, even if that honor comes from our enemies. We do feel safer with a honorable, trustworthy USA, even if that USA become our enemy. We are civilized enough to learn that from our own long history.
However, I do NOT feel that safe about the current state of your democracy. Because your democracy and your "freedom of speech" produces a big mouth fool of a head-of-state like Trump, who goes as far as hinting that he is willing to forfeit NATO and even forfeiting the USA's commitment to Japan and Korea, saying they can product nuclear weapon on their own to provide their own nuclear umbrella. The kind of world this will lead to, will not be a world that ordinary Americans like you would like to live in. This kind of world is especially bad for small entities like Taiwan, because they will be the first to get hurt badly.
Your president and your elite right now, are becoming crazy. Because they are working to subdue their perceived "challengers" like China, Iran, Russia, etc. down by all mean possible. They don't really seem to have a coherent plan yet. But their intentions are plain to see. I am not questioning their perception, like I said time and time again. IT IS TOTALLY FINE AND OKAY FOR THE USA TO TREAT CHINA AS AN ADVERSARY. We Chinese people don't mind that at all. In fact, we think that's inevitable, and also healthy thing for humanity (as well as for China) in the long run.
The presence of an strong Mongol tribes and Manchu tribes was the reason the Ming Dynasty was able to revive Chinese civilization so rapidly and profoundly after the destructive Mongol conquest.
The lack of worthy adversaries were exactly the reason Qing dynasty declined so rapidly after gaining a better strategic position and effective land mass than any previous regime in China.
We Chinese reflect upon our own past actions. You Americans never seems to do so. You are always right. Even if this Trump guy is an mockery of Western Civilization and American achievements, there are still hordes and hordes of Americans rushing in to justify every stupid mistakes he makes. This worries me.
I will stress this again. We appreciate the USA's stand on Taiwan if they are really just holding in there to honor their commitment. If their intentions are this simple and pure, things would have become very simple for China.
If you actually taken the time to look at PRC's proposal of the "One Country, two Systems" policy in regards to Taiwan, it had always been that Taiwan would keep their system of governance, keep their own military and public institution, work out a Basic Law (Constitution) and be a nominal part of one China, and keep their autonomy. However, this proposal has been held in derision.
Taiwan is not the same as Hong Kong. Hong Kong has continuously been a British colony until its hand-back. Taiwan was for a couple of decades the legitimate representation of China, until 1979. If Taipei wants to keep her honor and dignity as the seat of the Chinese Sovereignty, we will respect as long as it does not fundamentally invalidates the One China Principle and the Constitution of the PRC.
If the US is there PURELY to honor their commitment to Taiwan, then please understand that we Chinese appreciates this, even if this is against our interest in the moment. This is because Chinese civilization is heavily influenced by the studying of history. We look at things in grand historical scale, and don't mind the small little details. A strong and honorable USA might be our adversary today, but if they keep being strong and honorable, they could come to our aid when we need help in the future.
However, I am not convinced that your thoughts represents what the US current administration thinks. I don't think they give a damn about Taiwan. I think they just want to sell weapons and use Taiwan as a leverage to enhance their positions in a trade war with China, even if these actions puts Taiwan in more danger than before.
Thank you for your very honest reading and attempting to understand where I am coming from, I respect that a great deal. Morever, I believe you have articulated very well where the Chinese concern is??
I believe Mr. Trump has had to be tougher on China and Russia as a result of his domestic opposition, I'll just state once again for the record, that I am NOT a fan of tariffs, neither am I a fan of Mr. Trumps often offensive style....
In general, he is protecting my core values, conservative, pro-life, cutting taxes and allowing the economy to thrive, (tariffs are taxes, and that has hurt many people on a personal level), conservative jurists for the supreme court and lower courts....
Had the Democrats not launched these bogus investigations, (no collusion with the Russians), Mr. Trump and President Xi would have already hammered out a better for all trade agreement, Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin would have de-escalated the war of words and high emotion, the Pres would have an agreement and better relationship with Kim Jung Un, remember during their last meeting the Democrat congress was undermining the President and his administration!
This all puts peace, and the security of each of our nations at risk....