The Snowden Affair

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AssassinsMace

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China and Hong Kong Hold Edward Snowden's Fate
The Atlantic WireBy Connor Simpson | The Atlantic Wire – 3 hrs ago..


What happens next with the man responsible for leaking a trove of National Security Agency documents to the Guardian rests in the hands of two countries who could do anything. They might send him back to the U.S. with express shipping, or decide to keep him as a global bargaining chip.


Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old American defense contractor, revealed himself as the man responsible for the Guardian's string of NSA leaks Sunday afternoon. Booz Allen confirmed he was an employee for the last three months. But, for now, he's in a hotel in Hong Kong ordering room service and covering up every time he logs onto his computer. Snowden said he chose Hong Kong, despite his ultimate goal of seeking asylum in Iceland, because "they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent."



And he will, almost assuredly, face criminal charges. Saturday night, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told NBC News' Andrea Mitchell the NSA requested a criminal investigation into who leaked the information. "For me, it is literally – not figuratively – literally gut-wrenching to see this happen because of the huge, grave damage it does to our intelligence capabilities," Clapper said. This is the latest statement from the Shawn Turner, the NSA's Director of Public Affairs, per the Huffington Post's Sam Stein (emphasis ours):


We have seen the latest report from The Guardian that identifies an individual claiming to have disclosed information about highly classified intelligence programs in recent days. Because the matter has been referred to the Department of Justice, we refer you to the Department of Justice for comment on any further specifics of the unauthorized disclosure of classified information be a person with authorized access. The Intelligence Community is currently reviewing the damage that has been done by these recent disclosures.

The White House isn't commenting on Snowden as of Sunday evening. So the Justice Department is investigating and Snowden is holed up in Hong Kong, for now. If they do file criminal charges, Snowden's future and the chances he remains in Hong Kong are confusing, at best.


Hong Kong and the U.S. have a bilateral extradition agreement. But it's slightly more complicated than that. Snowden's decision to go to Hong Kong raises some very big questions. It could be a brilliant move or, frankly, a supremely dumb one. The Iceland asylum dream is basically dead in the water already. "A small country that wants to be close friends of the United States is not going to do that," writes Talking Points Memo's Josh Marshall. "But of all the places where you might have a shot at not getting extradited, China’s not a bad choice."


The extradition treaty between Hong Kong and the U.S. has to be approved by China and Hong Kong if the U.S. decides to request he be extradited. China has sovereignty over Hong Kong, but Hong Kong was granted a massive amount of autonomy when it was relinquished from British rule. The tiny country has a strong history of press freedom and political tolerance, as outlined by the Guardian's Julian Borger:


The freedom of the Hong Kong press, meanwhile, is being continually put to the test. When the government attempted in 2003 to impose restrictions on the grounds of sedition and national security, half a million people came out to demonstrate and the bill was withdrawn.

The tradition of commemorating the 1989 killing of Tiananmen Square demonstrators – banned in the rest of China – is vigorously upheld in Hong Kong. Attendance at a memorial ceremony in the territory's Victoria Park last week was estimated at between 54,000 and 150,000, despite torrential rain.

But, ultimately, it will likely come down to how China wants this to play out. They are perhaps the only superpower who can stand up to the U.S. on political matters. And, luckily for Snowden, President Obama and President Xi Jinping didn't see eye-to-eye on cyber security issues during their summit this weekend. Snowden's little performance probably played a big part of it. Marshall thinks there's two ways China could go. One works in Snowden's favor, while the other does not:


Call me naive but I think this is going to come down to how Beijing wants to play this. If they don’t want a fight over this, Snowden’s toast. If they like the optics of it, I don’t think it matters what that extradition treaty says. China’s a big enough player and the US has enough other fish to fry with the Chinese, that the US is not going to put the bilateral relationship on the line over this guy. And the Chinese might relish granting asylum to an American running from the claws of US ‘state repression’.

For now we must wait for the Justice Department to press criminal charges against Snowden and for an extradition request to happen. Snowden could possibly leave Hong Kong for another country, one that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the U.S., before the authorities find him. Or he could continue staying in his hotel room at the Mandarin Oriental, with the U.S. embassy just down the street, eating room service until his fate is ultimately sealed.

It would be interesting to see what the authorities in Hong Kong choose to do. This will be a test of what they believe.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

It would be interesting to see what the authorities in Hong Kong choose to do. This will be a test of what they believe.

I'm waiting to see how the western media and human rights activists will react to this Snowden guy.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

If he is returned he would likely face a nasty fine and some prison time. The Obama white house only likes leaks that look good for him. And he is also out to scare any anti Obama leaks shut.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Simple. China or Hong Kong should grant him political asylum on humanitarian grounds. Doesn't the US give Uighur separatists asylum?
 

Quickie

Colonel
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

They are different issues. One deals with separatist movement. The other concerns about freedom of speech, or in more general terms, the freedom of information, which in the U.S. should come under the Freedom of Information Acts. I remember China also has their equivalent of the freedom of information acts.
 

Franklin

Captain
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

I don't know if anyone here saw this coming.

Former CIA Officer: Officials Considering NSA Whistleblower’s Case ‘Potential Chinese Espionage’

Former CIA case officer Bob Baer revealed on CNN Sunday evening that intelligence officials were possibly considering Edward Snowden’s case as Chinese espionage, after Snowden came forward this afternoon from an undisclosed Hong Kong location.

“Hong Kong is controlled by Chinese intelligence,” Baer said. “It’s not an independent part of China at all. I’ve talked to a bunch of people in Washington today, in official positions, and they are looking at this as a potential Chinese espionage case.”

“On the face of it, it looks like it is under some sort of Chinese control, especially with the president meeting the premier today,” Baer said. “You have to ask what’s going on. China is not a friendly country and every aspect of that country is controlled. So why Hong Kong? Why didn’t he go to Sweden? Or, if he really wanted to make a statement, he should have done it on Capitol Hill.”

According to Glenn Greenwald, Snowden said he chose Hong Kong because “‘they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent,’ and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.”

CNN host Fredericka Whitfield asked if there was any chance of China extraditing Snowden.

“We’ll never get him in China,” Baer said. “They’re not about to send him to the United States and the CIA is not going to render him, as he said in the tape, is not going to try to grab him there.”

“It almost seems to me that this was a pointed affront to the United States on the day the president is meeting the Chinese leader,” Baer said, “telling us, listen, quit complaining about espionage and getting on the internet and our hacking. You are doing the same thing.”

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

I don't know if anyone here saw this coming.



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And the spinning and smearing begins. Who didn't see this one coming a mile off? Can't deal with the message? Go after the messenger, simples! :rolleyes:

PS, the comments made by that CIA cheerleader also sounds wilfully ignorant to the point of hilarity.

Go to Sweden? Please. Just look at how the Swedish authorities were happy to do America's dirty work with those absurd extradition charges with Assange and how he fought tooth and nail to avoid being extradited. Same for Capitol Hill, as if he would get a chance to say anything before the CIA renditioned him off to Gitmo or the Middle East. Even if by some miracle, he got his message out and could not simply be disappeared, one only has to look at the spiteful treatment of Bradly Manning to see what would be in store for this guy in US custody.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

And National Security. Which is why this is a fire that is going to brew . That said This is one man who broke his oath and national security agreement, not a ethnic group who claims asylum due to repression or persicusion, your "humanitarian grounds"is pretty shaky at best.
For fun lets reverse it. Say a member of the Peoples security service leaked to a english paper that the PRC was listening in on everyphone call and e mail in China now say our boy hoped on a plane and landed on the Marshall islands where he locks himself in a hotel and is looking for asylum? So does the US let him stay because China claims the Senkaku islands? No that does not even factor in on the decision. In that flipped version the US makes the call the sameway Beijing does now. Cost vs. benefit. If we offer this guy safe haven what do we get vs what do we loose?
You get a possible inside look at the workings of the American NSA, possibly how its data and phone snooping works and perhaps more. What you loose is that their is the potential that anything he gives you is dated or false, their is the potential that this will cause either the current or next American administration to start turning up the heat on you via actually enforcing regulation on Chinese companies and groups that operate in or are traded the US and are normally ignored (that depends on how hard Obama wants this guy) truth be told though as I think the list over it either ends up with him turned over because the Chinese aren't sure they could get anything useful or staying. The Obama administration is a lightweight at best and could really not do jack to apply pressure.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Say a member of the Peoples security service leaked to a english paper that the PRC was listening in on everyphone call and e mail in China now say our boy hoped on a plane and landed on the Marshall islands where he locks himself in a hotel and is looking for asylum?


Since when has the West not thought that the Chinese government listens in to the Chinese citizens' every conversation via any medium? Since when has the Western media not said that already?
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

And the spinning and smearing begins. Who didn't see this one coming a mile off? Can't deal with the message? Go after the messenger, simples! :rolleyes:

PS, the comments made by that CIA cheerleader also sounds wilfully ignorant to the point of hilarity.

Go to Sweden? Please. Just look at how the Swedish authorities were happy to do America's dirty work with those absurd extradition charges with Assange and how he fought tooth and nail to avoid being extradited. Same for Capitol Hill, as if he would get a chance to say anything before the CIA renditioned him off to Gitmo or the Middle East. Even if by some miracle, he got his message out and could not simply be disappeared, one only has to look at the spiteful treatment of Bradly Manning to see what would be in store for this guy in US custody.

sorry their wolf but NO Manning is in the military he comes under military rules He is not living four star hotel life but you can see hes not living in a hole in the floor filled with his own filth either. This guy is not military and Getmo has nothing to do with this either. You want to know what is going to happen? Look up John Kimakou he was the guy that spilled on water boarding. He is locked up serving a prison sentence. That is what this guy faces despite what some of us might think its not some terror factory with electrifyed box springs.
 
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