The Power Of Terracotta Army

Discussion in 'Military History' started by ian991, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. B.I.B.
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    B.I.B. Senior Member

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    If the emperor and his relatives not killed during battle,were they put to the sword, or banished somewhere with each succeeding generation sliding down the hierarchical rankings until they to became commoners?
     
  2. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    I am not sure I understand your question, so I give two answers to two different scenario.

    If the dynasty continues, the thrown will be passed to one heir (a son). The other sons will have the ranks like dukes or princes. Depending on dynasties, the grandsons will be demoted by one rank (such as Qing). With every generation passes these offspring will be further away from the sitting emperor, so both their ranks will diminish and their blood relations to the imperial house will distance, eventually to the point of a commoner. This is more true in some dynasty such as Qing than Ming (by the end of it, there are thousands who still maintains the rank of prince or dukes). I think this is your question?

    If the dynasty is overthrown, very often the imperial house and relatives won't survive because the succeeding dynasty will make sure there is nobody able to reclaim. Although the succeeding dynasty will try not to bloody their hands, but having somebody else do the dirty job, such as Wu Sangui killed the last Ming emperor when Wu served as a general of the succeeding Qing dynasty. Some times, the last emperor and his relatives will be granted a noble title as prince and be kept closely watched, such as the last Han emperor after replaced by Wei was installed as a duke.
     
    #12 taxiya, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  3. B.I.B.
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    B.I.B. Senior Member

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    Woops I left out "previous" in my first sentence.

    I hope Im not annoying you by asking these questions but my last one for the time being

    Can folks trace their ancestry back to past dynastys through their Surname such as Wu or Chu/Chiu. etc etc
     
  4. PiSigma
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    PiSigma "the engineer"

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    Some names are too common. Like Li for the tang dynasty or Zhao for song and zhu for Ming and liu for han... All are too common. So unless u got actual written family like mine it is hard to trace it back.

    I can trace my family back because it is relatively recent on one side. My mom side is half Manchu and half Mongol. Both from big noble families so it wasn't hard. Heseri clan on manchu side, so all the records are pretty good. Dad side is supposedly from xiahou dun's side... But we are not sure since the family records were lost during the An lushan and in Ming dynasty. All the records were rewritten by memory after each time it was lost so who knows how much is true. Our original name was xiahou, but maybe they just wanted a famous ancestor.
     
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  5. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    Not annoying at all. It is a subject that I am interested to share.

    No, people can not simply trace their ancestry back to imperial house (past dynasty) without reliable family record. The reason is that many of these imperial family names were granted by emperor to people of other clan's (unrelated) as a reward, especially to "foreigners" such as Tujue (Turks) in Tang dynasty, or Liu to Xiongnu in Han dynasty. Or some of these "foreigners" picked up these prestigious names to claim legitimacy for founding their own rules without any legal ground. There are also many foreigners (Koreans and Vietnamese) who adopted (just pick) Chinese family names when the countries adopted Chinese scripts without ever living in part of China. Then later on, Koreans for example, they migrated to China (Koreans in north-east China), among them many have Li (Lee), Jin (Kim). These Li and Jin have nothing to do with the Chinese Li and Jin. Jin can also be from the Qing imperial clan (Aisin Gioro) who adopted Jin as Sinicized name. Jin in Mandarin means gold, same as Aisin Gioro in Manchurian, but the people are not related. It is more certain to trace someone's ancestry if he/she has a less popular family name.

    Note, during the Qing dynasty, Manchus have two versions of family names. One is 老姓 (old family names) which is the original Manchurian name. The other is 汉姓 (Han family names) which is the adopted/translated Mandarin name. The two may or may not be related.
    Examples
    1. (old name) Aisin Gioro to (Han name) Jin, translated by meaning.
    2. (old name) Yehenara to (Han name) Hui, no relation in meaning or sounding.
     
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  6. PiSigma
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    PiSigma "the engineer"

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    Damn right. The han name used in my family is Zhang, but still part of the Heseri clan.
     
  7. Quickie
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    Have you gone into a historical study of the relics of the weapons of that era before making such a sweeping conclusion?

    There seems to be more of these ancient relics that are discovered in China than in other countries.


    As an example as can be seen on You-tube, the discoveries of an ancient sword, and chariots of a noble person, were found to be at a very advanced level, probably more so than in the rest of the world of that era.

    The Sword of King of Yue



    Nova Chinese Chariot Revealed (BR Docs)

    MEDIA=youtube]V03pr8rx2ho[/MEDIA]


    Below, as a comparison, are chariots from other parts of the world.





     
    #17 Quickie, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  8. Quickie
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    Nova Chinese Chariot Revealed (BR Docs)


    A longer version here,
     
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  9. B.I.B.
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    B.I.B. Senior Member

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    U Tube is magic
     
  10. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    Li goes back for a long long time.

    There is Li Jing, who is a Shang Dynasty general, but his story is shrouded in mythology.

    Then there is LI Er, also better known as the Lao Ze or Lao Tse, founder of Taoism. Again, semi-legendary.

    During the Warring States and the Qin Dynasty period, you have three prominent Li ---

    Li Mu --- One of the four greatest generals of that time. It was necessary to get rid of him via subterfuge before the Qin can conquer the Zhao.
    Li Si --- Chancellor of the Qin Dynasty. He developed the Legalism principles that has a lasting impact on Chinese culture and political thought.
    Li Xin --- One of Ying Zheng's generals, conquered the Yan state.

    Li Si and his entire family were said to be exterminated because of political rivals. On the other hand, the lineage of Li Xin continued on as a warrior clan that spawned generals in the Han Dynasty like Li Guang and Li Ling. This lineage would extend to the founders and emperors of the Tang Dynasty. Because of the Tang Dynasty emperors, Li became popular and many people adopted it. The Tang emperors also granted many people the Li surname, including people who were non-Chinese, as favors to them and expect these people to be loyal like family.

    Li Xin is "Shin", the protagonist in the popular Kingdom manga, who also features Li Mu as a prominent character.
     
    #20 Tam, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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