the PLAAF VIP-aircraft

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Ironicly the original proposed livery for the american Air force one was a scheme in red and metallic gold, Kennedy felt it looked to Imperial. I guess that paint job is better suited to tony stark but I could imagine the Chinese trying it.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Ironicly the original proposed livery for the american Air force one was a scheme in red and metallic gold, Kennedy felt it looked to Imperial. I guess that paint job is better suited to tony stark but I could imagine the Chinese trying it.

Good example! Iron Man is red and gold and he looks awesome!
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
A Red 747 with gold trim and the gold stars of the PRC flag with Peoples republic of China emblazoned on the hull in Chinese Characters?
 

Lethe

Captain
According to Wikipedia, government air transport in China is provided by ten Boeing 737s and a Boeing 747-400 (
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) drawn from commercial service when necessary.

Clearly it is sub-optimal for an aspiring superpower to be reliant upon foreign jets for transport, especially when relations with that nation are deteriorating. The new C919 should be able to replace the 737s for travel within China, but larger aircraft are more problematic.

By 2025 a Chinese 787-class twin-engine aircraft should be available under the project currently being pursued jointly with Russia. While such an aircraft would be a significant improvement over the current arrangement, it arguably would continue to fall short of appropriately representing China as a superpower. And in that respect only the A380 (or A380neo) would seem to suffice. While it is not an indigenous aircraft, it is also not an American aircraft, and nor (so far as we can tell) does China have plans to develop and field an aircraft even remotely comparable in the foreseeable future.

A full list of (non-American) candidate aircraft:

Airbus A350XWB
Airbus A380/neo
Ilyushin IL-96-400
Y-20 Derivative
Future Joint Sino-Russian Widebody
 

superdog

Junior Member
China did not have a problem using Boeing in the past few decades, even after the 767 wiretap incident they continued to use Boeing, I don't think they will find it an issue in the next 10-20 years. My guess is that they will continue to use Air China 747 (perhaps switch to 747-8 after a while) for trans-continental visits, until they get their own C939-class aircraft.

Air China is not ordering any A380, and I don't think they will intentionally switch to Airbus just because it is "not American", unless China-US relationship goes really bad with things like sustained war and complete economic blockade. If that unlikely scenario is realized then government transport is the least of their worries, heck they could use Y-20 if necessary.
 

AlyxMS

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't see the Boeings replaced any time soon.

They have are already modified and ready to go, they are still relatively new, they are all proven models with excellent safety record.

The important thing about VIP transports is that safety and reliability come first, prestige comes second. Replacing them with a indigenous aircraft that is new, unproven is potentially a risk.

I'm not saying this won't happen, but it will take quite a few years.

Airbuses and IL-96 are likely candidates, if C929 did not materialize, US-Sino relationship has worsened, and the Boeing airframes are approaching the end of their life. But I doubt IL-76 and Y-20 would join them, they are military transports. They are designed for heavy lifting not comfort. They have a upper wing with engines right near the fuselage which makes the cabin noise very noisy, they need extensive modifications to be anywhere close to being a VIP transport. Also airliners have a lot of standards that they need to conform to. To build a VIP transport out of a military lifter would simply require too much effort.
 

Lethe

Captain
I don't see the Boeings replaced any time soon.

They have are already modified and ready to go, they are still relatively new, they are all proven models with excellent safety record.

How heavily modified is the 747-400? When I read that it is drawn from commercial service and returned afterwards, that would seem to preclude the extensive modifications required to have anything like the functionality of the American Air Force One.

To a large extent it is not about transporting VIPs, it is about representing the nation on the world stage. Having the leadership of a supposed superpower (let alone an enduring civilisation representing one-sixth of humanity) flown around in a commercial aircraft manufactured by the other superpower sends the wrong message from the start: that China cannot stand on its own two feet and there does not need to be taken all that seriously.

The important thing about VIP transports is that safety and reliability come first, prestige comes second. Replacing them with a indigenous aircraft that is new, unproven is potentially a risk.

So the Chinese government is going to use the Chinese people as test dummies instead? If the government won't give the aircraft its vote of confidence, why would anybody else? If you don't have confidence in the aircraft it shouldn't be flying, period.
 
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Lethe

Captain
So far as I can see every nation that has an aviation industry transports its government figures in domestic aircraft to the extent possible:

USA: Boeing & Gulfstream
UK: Airbus & BAe
France: Airbus & Dassault
Germany: Airbus & Bombardier
Italy: Airbus & Dassault
Spain: Airbus & Dassault
Russia: Ilyushin
Brazil: Airbus & Embraer
Canada: Airbus & Bombardier

Meanwhile, the Japanese government is rumoured to be planning to replace its current Gulfstreams with Mitsubishi MRJ for intra-Japan use.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
According to Wikipedia, government air transport in China is provided by ten Boeing 737s and a Boeing 747-400 (
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) drawn from commercial service when necessary.
That's standard practice Even for the Super power Russia. The US is more of a Unique case as The US lacks a Nationalized carrier. Air China is owned by the China National Aviation Holding Company who is a State owned entity of the PRC.

Clearly it is sub-optimal for an aspiring superpower to be reliant upon foreign jets for transport, especially when relations with that nation are deteriorating. The new C919 should be able to replace the 737s for travel within China, but larger aircraft are more problematic.
"Sub-Optimal" Generally the Selection is made based on needs not wants. It's a Question of Capacity vs specialized equipment.

By 2025 a Chinese 787-class twin-engine aircraft should be available under the project currently being pursued jointly with Russia. While such an aircraft would be a significant improvement over the current arrangement, it arguably would continue to fall short of appropriately representing China as a superpower.
Based on What Rational? IF you are looking At AF1 you should consider who it is actually used vs just trying to keep up with the Jones. The Current AF1 seats far fewer then a Boeing 747 400 On which it is based much of that space is converted to Communications and Electronics as well a Living and meeting accommodations however a large amount of the deck space is still Passenger space for Staff and Press. IE entourage. IF you want a Larger aircraft you have to justify then needs. The Press aboard AF1 as well as Security details ( The President and Aircraft have there own) justify the VC25 and It's coming Boeing 747-8
And in that respect only the A380 (or A380neo) would seem to suffice. While it is not an indigenous aircraft, it is also not an American aircraft, and nor (so far as we can tell) does China have plans to develop and field an aircraft even remotely comparable in the foreseeable future.
The questions then are 1 Does the Chinese President need that much space and capacity? Does he intend to bring The Central committee and staff with him on state trips? if not then a smaller type is in order. Remember Although the Current VC25 ( Air Force one) is a 747 200B this is a smaller model than the standard 747 And the trade up to the 747-8I was primarily a matter of difficulty maintaining spares and parts for the 747-200B which is out of production as well as added wnats of electronics.
A full list of (non-American) candidate aircraft:

Airbus A350XWB
Airbus A380/neo
Ilyushin IL-96-400
Y-20 Derivative
Future Joint Sino-Russian Widebody
The main problem with your list it it's right now. not the projected future list. The A380 has been having issues finding orders which means it may not get to neo before the line is closed
350 would be fine.
Ilyushin IL-96-400 has limited orders and probably a limited line besides Airbus would be the better bet as Air china as an established line to them
Y20 is iffy Military transports are not typically chosen for such missions as they are utility machines and not people friendly, A VVIP is supposed to get atleast first class treatment. Transports tend to lack AC be hard rides and just not suited for the role. If The President of the PRC has a Y20 at his disposal it would be transporting cargo for him.
I don't think they will find it an issue in the next 10-20 years. My guess is that they will continue to use Air China 747 (perhaps switch to 747-8 after a while) for trans-continental visits, until they get their own C939-class aircraft.
best bet assuming there is a C939.
Air China is not ordering any A380, and I don't think they will intentionally switch to Airbus just because it is "not American", unless China-US relationship goes really bad with things like sustained war and complete economic blockade. If that unlikely scenario is realized then government transport is the least of their worries, heck they could use Y-20 if necessary.
again on both is it justified and does it meet the needs?

I don't see the Boeings replaced any time soon.
They have are already modified and ready to go, they are still relatively new, they are all proven models with excellent safety record.[/quotes] Perfect answer.
The important thing about VIP transports is that safety and reliability come first, prestige comes second. Replacing them with a indigenous aircraft that is new, unproven is potentially a risk.
exactly and for a Head of State plane comes down to three points to decide on size.
1) Mission needs.
Air force one does not have all the Amenities you would think, There is no bath or sauna or King size bed What it has a communications center, It's a national command bunker on wings. In National Emergency Air force one was designed to evac POTUS and give him Command of the US Nuclear arsenal.
2) Entourage, The President of the US Travels with a staff, Members of his family, Security teams and a Press pool. Most other National leadership ( including Russian) travel with just their body guards and Staff or a few guests.
3) Then and only then Amenities. Offices, Bedrooms, ward rooms Head of State aircraft are places of business.
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. Xi would have a harder time telling members of the party to cut back on the Lambo's If he is flying around in a Jet with a Jacuzzi.

How heavily modified is the 747-400? When I read that it is drawn from commercial service and returned afterwards, that would seem to preclude the extensive modifications required to have anything like the functionality of the American Air Force One.
In most cases for VVIP Use you rarely need the level of Modifications seen on the VC25, It's EMP Hardened, Sat coms, has a little used air to air refueling feature ( The the Air force found was more trouble than it was worth. ) loaded with missile countermeasures.
Then come the actual VVIP amenities which for a Jet are pretty snazzy but are actually rather mundane compared to Some private VIP rides. most of the time though a Modern First class style accommodations will do.

To a large extent it is not about transporting VIPs, it is about representing the nation on the world stage. Having the leadership of a supposed superpower (let alone an enduring civilisation representing one-sixth of humanity) flown around in a commercial aircraft manufactured by the other superpower sends the wrong message from the start: that China cannot stand on its own two feet and there does not need to be taken all that seriously.
No that's more Shuttle diplomacy then VIP transport. Air force one is Iconic, a symbol of the United states of America, but the President and Vice president of the US make a lot of Trips Justifying a big VVIP bird. That's more a question of how many state trips a President of China intends to make? Xi Jinping is actually the most traveled head of the PRC. in 2015 he made 8 trips abroad. that same year President Obama made 10, in 2016 Obama visited 17 foreign nations And I am not counting the Trips he made around the US or Midway. As you can see The POTUS makes far more foreign trips than that of The President of the PRC.
Remember a Sign of Chinese Political good will to the world is a joke if it never leaves Beijing.

So far as I can see every nation that has an aviation industry transports its government figures in domestic aircraft to the extent possible:

USA: Boeing & Gulfstream
Sikorsky helicopter to, but Correct.
UK: Airbus & BAe
Partially right, Only in the last year as the UK had a Head of Government/ Head of State Transport available for foreign Trips prior to that they borrowed a Boeing 767 from British Airways. The Royals also use a mix of US and British aircraft for shorter trips the primary helicopter for flying her majesty is a Sikorsky S76C+ additionally lesser members of the Royal family and PM are not above flying commercially.
France: Airbus & Dassault
Germany: Airbus & Bombardier
Correct but Bombardier is Canadian not German, and Airbus is a Multinational
Italy: Airbus & Dassault
Spain: Airbus & Dassault
Russia: Ilyushin
Russian Presidents have traveled in a little bit of everything really Ilyushin, Airbus, Yakovlev, Tupolev they were suposedly looking at Sukhoi SuperJet they have a couple Antonov's All operated by the Russian National Carrier. And For Putin they use VIP modified Mi 8 models but Medvedev uses a Westland Agusta 139 helicopter
Brazil: Airbus & Embraer
Rumors are a Boeing 747 in the works.
Canada: Airbus & Bombardier
Canada is not part of Europe, Ergo this is a half break of of your claim.
Meanwhile, the Japanese government is rumoured to be planning to replace its current Gulfstreams with Mitsubishi MRJ for intra-Japan use.
Skipping the 2 Japanese Boeing 747-400 operated by the JASDF for the Imperial family and PM, that are supposed to be Replaced with Boeing 777-300ER in a few years.
 

AlyxMS

Junior Member
Registered Member
How heavily modified is the 747-400?
As far as I know, mostly interior modifications. Seats, meeting table, that sort of thing. Oh, and a sweep of surveillance bugs. I read somewhere one Boeing was changed to civilian service because bugs was found.

To a large extent it is not about transporting VIPs, it is about representing the nation on the world stage. Having the leadership of a supposed superpower (let alone an enduring civilisation representing one-sixth of humanity).
You need to be able to manufacture a reliable, safe, world class jet before you can worry about the effects of what jet the leader ride in on a nation's image.

So the Chinese government is going to use the Chinese people as test dummies instead?
Absolutely.
Like Aérospatiale/BAC used the first few batches of passengers as test dummies to figure out what's wrong with the plane.
Though I would put it in another way: Letting the jet to build a safety record, to prove that it is safe.
When selecting the transportation vehicle for VVIPs, safety is always the greatest concern.
If C9X9 didn't sell? Tough luck.
If the leader of a nation is in potential danger, that would be serious problem.
 
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