The long-awaited eruption of Anti-mainland tensions in Hong Kong

laiwingnang · Feb 6, 2012

bd popeye said:
laiwingnang, welcome to SDF.

Apparently you've not read the forum rules. You need to do so before you post again.
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Done!

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

You must live in a different Toronto than I, because I have *never* seen anything like what's in the video happen on the TTC, and I take both the subway and the bus to work every day.

Sorry, do you have some video clip that we've not seen? Where do you see that they were "making a mess"?

you probably don't speak any Cantonese..
but this is the clip...this is the youtube video code...put that behind the usual youtube link as I don't have enough posts to put links here..E7oU-QFGU8Q
get someone to translate the dialogue starting 1:29 to get the full story before you criticize

and Yes, I live in TORONTO, CANADA...I don't know which Toronto you came from, on Mars? but people here are always vocal about people standing in the doorway..people not automatically jump up to offer a seat to an elder...and it happened to me once when I was blamed for not yielding a seat to this supposedly old hag when I wake up from a nap in the subway...Are you sure you've been on the TTC?
But incidents like that don't escalate to calling security (which you actually recommend)...because people just shut up after a few words of arguement unlike this mainlander who keeps yelling back even when she is wrong...that's ghetto for you

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

another new one hits the papers...a mainlander got into an arguement with a HK girl, calling her a Hong Kong dog..then started gripping her at the throat..and causing another call for authority....
HK dog , which is what mainland netizens are calling HK people these days...
are we going to denounce these Mainlanders for being racist ...yeah, I think not because we all love to be the hero of the day to save the poor underpriviledge..

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

I forgot ...complains about people squeezing into each other on a packed train or people not moving in far enough, and the rude bus drivers yelling at passengers for not moving futher...happens so often in Toronto, do you have take the TTC?

MwRYum · Feb 6, 2012

As someone who physically live in Hong Kong, and physically witnessed how one of the movements ferment into the hate campaign today, perhaps I can share some points...

While generally the crowd haven't go beyond the "keyboard warrior" stage (the physical turnout compare with the number of "like" on Facebook, for instance), and the worst they did were nothing more than singing racial songs against mainlanders in the public and "that" advertisement, plus without solid organization (Facebook revolution can't sustain, unless political parties take over the subsequent works), the worrying signs of right-wing xenophobic are there for all to see:

1. "anti-locust" icons are gaining popularity and even commercialized
2. cultural vessels of the movements (songs and posters) are gaining viral popularity, spreading beyond the youth
3. even mothers and housewives joined the "anti-locust" movements, when these are usually the non-participants
4. loose, non-organized community can garner funds in less than a week

So all it takes is just a few more provocations from the mainlanders (y'know, if that so-called "professor" said nothing things would died down - or cooled down a lot - by now), further inaction by the government, and some politicians fan the fire...how long it'd take for Hong Kong to have their own "skinhead gang" or "neo-nazi-ish gang" who'd translate such rage into physical violence?

But with an Administration waiting to step down in less than 6 months time, and legislative council election in the 3rd quarter, it's just all too evident that many would rather do nothing, or worse let it ferment some more to turn it into viable munitions in election time.

solarz · Feb 6, 2012

laiwingnang said:
you probably don't speak any Cantonese..
but this is the clip...this is the youtube video code...put that behind the usual youtube link as I don't have enough posts to put links here..E7oU-QFGU8Q
get someone to translate the dialogue starting 1:29 to get the full story before you criticize

So in other words, you haven't *SEEN* any mess, you're just relying on a one-sided narrative.

and Yes, I live in TORONTO, CANADA...I don't know which Toronto you came from, on Mars? but people here are always vocal about people standing in the doorway..people not automatically jump up to offer a seat to an elder...and it happened to me once when I was blamed for not yielding a seat to this supposedly old hag when I wake up from a nap in the subway...Are you sure you've been on the TTC?
But incidents like that don't escalate to calling security (which you actually recommend)...because people just shut up after a few words of arguement unlike this mainlander who keeps yelling back even when she is wrong...that's ghetto for you

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

another new one hits the papers...a mainlander got into an arguement with a HK girl, calling her a Hong Kong dog..then started gripping her at the throat..and causing another call for authority....
HK dog , which is what mainland netizens are calling HK people these days...
are we going to denounce these Mainlanders for being racist ...yeah, I think not because we all love to be the hero of the day to save the poor underpriviledge..

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

I forgot ...complains about people squeezing into each other on a packed train or people not moving in far enough, and the rude bus drivers yelling at passengers for not moving futher...happens so often in Toronto, do you have take the TTC?

1) Assume mainlander was wrong without any evidence other than a one-sided narrative. *check*

2) Assume mainlanders are "ghetto". *check*

3) Taking an isolated incident and generalizing it to an entire group of people. *check*

Yeah, no bigotry here...

As for the TTC, if you can't see the difference between people getting yelled at for eating, and the bus driver telling people to move back, then there's really no point in arguing with you.

BTW, I get on packed buses where people stand in front while leaving huge space in the back all the time. A few simple "excuse me"s are enough to get myself to the back. No yelling needed.

---------- Post added at 10:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 AM ----------

MwRYum said:
As someone who physically live in Hong Kong, and physically witnessed how one of the movements ferment into the hate campaign today, perhaps I can share some points...

While generally the crowd haven't go beyond the "keyboard warrior" stage (the physical turnout compare with the number of "like" on Facebook, for instance), and the worst they did were nothing more than singing racial songs against mainlanders in the public and "that" advertisement, plus without solid organization (Facebook revolution can't sustain, unless political parties take over the subsequent works), the worrying signs of right-wing xenophobic are there for all to see:

1. "anti-locust" icons are gaining popularity and even commercialized
2. cultural vessels of the movements (songs and posters) are gaining viral popularity, spreading beyond the youth
3. even mothers and housewives joined the "anti-locust" movements, when these are usually the non-participants
4. loose, non-organized community can garner funds in less than a week

So all it takes is just a few more provocations from the mainlanders (y'know, if that so-called "professor" said nothing things would died down - or cooled down a lot - by now), further inaction by the government, and some politicians fan the fire...how long it'd take for Hong Kong to have their own "skinhead gang" or "neo-nazi-ish gang" who'd translate such rage into physical violence?

But with an Administration waiting to step down in less than 6 months time, and legislative council election in the 3rd quarter, it's just all too evident that many would rather do nothing, or worse let it ferment some more to turn it into viable munitions in election time.

These people forget that Hong Kong's wealth comes from the Mainland. If the anti-mainland attitude takes popularity, it will simply hasten the displacement of Hong Kong's economy to Mainland cities like Shanghai.

cn_habs · Feb 6, 2012

laiwingnang said:
Done!

---------- Post added at 12:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------

you probably don't speak any Cantonese..
but this is the clip...this is the youtube video code...put that behind the usual youtube link as I don't have enough posts to put links here..E7oU-QFGU8Q
get someone to translate the dialogue starting 1:29 to get the full story before you criticize

and Yes, I live in TORONTO, CANADA...I don't know which Toronto you came from, on Mars? but people here are always vocal about people standing in the doorway..people not automatically jump up to offer a seat to an elder...and it happened to me once when I was blamed for not yielding a seat to this supposedly old hag when I wake up from a nap in the subway...Are you sure you've been on the TTC?
But incidents like that don't escalate to calling security (which you actually recommend)...because people just shut up after a few words of arguement unlike this mainlander who keeps yelling back even when she is wrong...that's ghetto for you

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

another new one hits the papers...a mainlander got into an arguement with a HK girl, calling her a Hong Kong dog..then started gripping her at the throat..and causing another call for authority....
HK dog , which is what mainland netizens are calling HK people these days...
are we going to denounce these Mainlanders for being racist ...yeah, I think not because we all love to be the hero of the day to save the poor underpriviledge..

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 AM ----------

I forgot ...complains about people squeezing into each other on a packed train or people not moving in far enough, and the rude bus drivers yelling at passengers for not moving futher...happens so often in Toronto, do you have take the TTC?

Well as someone who's lived in the 2 biggest Canadian cities Montreal and Toronto for over a decade, I can tell you more often than not, younger folks do not give up seats to elderly and kids nor do most people move towards the back in crowded buses. I've never heard of hyped up public scene like this young man caused.

I wonder what Hkers would do if they found couples having sex in the subway train...hey it happened in Toronto!

Regarding the "HK dog" label you mentioned, who do you think caused it in the first place? Hasn't racism towards mainlanders always been obvious? HKers here in Canada use the same derogatory terms. This self perceived superiority is what exactly the British had in mind when they colonized the island only to find out it was full of fishermen and farmers.

It will take a few generations for some mainlanders to have proper manners in public so calling them locusts shows lack of civility. Most of your forefathers came from the mainland too so feel free to insult them and your own mainland origins at will. You'd make them very proud.

MwRYum · Feb 6, 2012

solarz said:
These people forget that Hong Kong's wealth comes from the Mainland. If the anti-mainland attitude takes popularity, it will simply hasten the displacement of Hong Kong's economy to Mainland cities like Shanghai.

Try this for size:

The "economic benefit" the mainland brings largely gobbled up by large corporations, with the general public taking bread crumbs of it at best and nothing filtered down at most; worse, it's the public that has to live with the ill effects -
1. local citizens getting squeezed out to make way for tourists;
2. property price hike drive actual inflation (not the gross average, but those that touch the people most) to somewhere in the 40-50% region;
3. endure the grotesque mannerism exhibited by mainlanders;
4. mainland mothers who flooded the local medical system not only overloading it, but so many case of "leave without paying" made the locals "pay the bills" in effect;
5. the dreaded upcoming scheme of allowing mainland drivers drive their cars down to HK for vacation (if not counting in the already congested local road condition, mainland drivers are notoriously known to run you down dead in what should've been minor accidents, among other clear and present threats);

And those are just tip of the icebergs.

It's not like in those oil-production dukedoms where the locals are tastings the benefits (call it "bribe" if you may) and living the good life in various forms of government subsidies, the populaces in HK mostly shares no fruit of it and getting the crap-end instead, so can you blame them for hating the mainlanders, REALLY?

In case that you said it's the government's fault, I'd say yes and a good deal of the anger is directed at the local Administration and the equally impotent Legislation Council (its recent proposal to raise the monthly pay for the members is widely regarded as further insult to the populaces).

I'm telling you, it's just fermenting a city-wide riot...it's no different than methane gas trap in a sewer system, it just wait for that little spark to trigger a big kaboom...unless the Administration get off their lazy arses and actually do something. If you don't believe me, then means you don't know how much hate is fermenting in local internet and tabloid-level media...wanna guess how long until some kids would lash out in violent fashion?

In some ways, I don't blame those who claimed to miss the "good'o days" when the British are in-charge - yes those people exists...but then again, there're people missing the "old regimes" of their respective locale everywhere...

solarz · Feb 6, 2012

MwRYum said:
Try this for size:

The "economic benefit" the mainland brings largely gobbled up by large corporations, with the general public taking bread crumbs of it at best and nothing filtered down at most; worse, it's the public that has to live with the ill effects -
1. local citizens getting squeezed out to make way for tourists;
2. property price hike drive actual inflation (not the gross average, but those that touch the people most) to somewhere in the 40-50% region;
3. endure the grotesque mannerism exhibited by mainlanders;
4. mainland mothers who flooded the local medical system not only overloading it, but so many case of "leave without paying" made the locals "pay the bills" in effect;
5. the dreaded upcoming scheme of allowing mainland drivers drive their cars down to HK for vacation (if not counting in the already congested local road condition, mainland drivers are notoriously known to run you down dead in what should've been minor accidents, among other clear and present threats);

And those are just tip of the icebergs.

It's not like in those oil-production dukedoms where the locals are tastings the benefits (call it "bribe" if you may) and living the good life in various forms of government subsidies, the populaces in HK mostly shares no fruit of it and getting the crap-end instead, so can you blame them for hating the mainlanders, REALLY?

In case that you said it's the government's fault, I'd say yes and a good deal of the anger is directed at the local Administration and the equally impotent Legislation Council (its recent proposal to raise the monthly pay for the members is widely regarded as further insult to the populaces).

I'm telling you, it's just fermenting a city-wide riot...it's no different than methane gas trap in a sewer system, it just wait for that little spark to trigger a big kaboom...unless the Administration get off their lazy arses and actually do something. If you don't believe me, then means you don't know how much hate is fermenting in local internet and tabloid-level media...wanna guess how long until some kids would lash out in violent fashion?

In some ways, I don't blame those who claimed to miss the "good'o days" when the British are in-charge - yes those people exists...but then again, there're people missing the "old regimes" of their respective locale everywhere...

This is how the economy works pretty much everywhere. If Hong Kongers wanted a society where corporations did not grab all the wealth and everyone was equally poor, they should have moved to the Mainland in the 60's and 70's instead of making fun of them.

If HKers don't want Mainland tourists, why are there so many tour groups and tourist trap shops trying to rip off mainland visitors? Why do these stores gladly accept mainland RMB?

Everything you described above have nothing to do mainland visitors. These are all problems of HK's own making. If this was a Mainland city, the government would have implemented some measures to fix the problem already. Instead, since HK is a democracy and the politicians are more interested in getting votes, people just keep whining and nothing gets done.

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

Here's food for thought:

Hong Kong was reverted to Chinese control in 1997, and the One Country, Two System policy is set to expire in 2047.

What would happen if HK remained the same state as today when the policy expires? (Assuming the PRC political system is still the same.)

On the other hand, what would happen if HK was turned into an economically inconsequential 3rd-rate city in 2047?

Which would better suit the CCP?

vesicles · Feb 6, 2012

solarz said:
What would happen if HK remained the same state as today when the policy expires? (Assuming the PRC political system is still the same.)

People in HK might decide to join the mainland. Why? People in HK now are having issues with China because many of them lived through both British rule and China's. No matter how better China's policies are, many will still miss what they had before '97. That leads to dissatisfaction etc. Lets='s face it. Like one of the previous posts was saying, there is always people missing the good o' days. Even many Chinese miss what was like in the '60s and '70s. These would be the people who are not getting the benefit of the economic development as well as many others. And they miss the good o' time when everyone was poor and they don't have to feel pity about themselves.

By 2047, these people will be long gone. Most people in HK at that time will be used to what is like under China control. So the decision will be alot easier than what it is today. Plus, China in 40 years will most definitely be more democratic. So the decision won't be as difficu
lt.

solarz said:
On the other hand, what would happen if HK was turned into an economically inconsequential 3rd-rate city in 2047?

Which would better suit the CCP?

By that time, China will be developed enough that HK won't be such a big factor. In 1997, China was still at an early stage of their development. Having HK was big for them. By 2047, China will have at least 30-40 cities with the size and level of development and sophistication that match that of HK. So China probably won't see it as such a of big deal, while the HKers will most likely spend a lot of time deciding what to do since their ultimate decision will have a much bigger impact on themselves than on mainland China.

Taiwan would be a good example. 30 years ago, having investment from Taiwan was absolutely critical to China's development. but now? Taiwan depends on China's investment. And China probably won't be thinking too much about a possible economic impact associated now when talking about Taiwan.

bd popeye · Feb 6, 2012

Some of the post in this thread are not in the spirit of this forum..read the rules..

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The long-awaited eruption of Anti-mainland tensions in Hong Kong

laiwingnang

Just Hatched

MwRYum

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solarz

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cn_habs

Junior Member

MwRYum

Major

solarz

Brigadier

vesicles

Colonel

bd popeye

The Last Jedi