The Korean war

Status
Not open for further replies.

raider1001

New Member
False, the UN forces consisted of American allies and the security council was dominated by its allies except for the soviets. Its absurd to think that they would no longer consider China a threat even if the cease fire ended in 1950. Non-aligned nations have no interest in the war. If anything US failed to isolate China and caused China to emerge as a major independent power and thus reshaped the UN.

The classic argument...if you are not with us, then you are against us. Except for ROC, the other American "Allies" are all European powers that doesn't even have enough interests in Pacific affairs...do they even care about China enough to view it as a threat? Maybe the only way for China to gain respect is to eradicate anti-China thoughts everywhere?

plawolf is right, you do have an agenda in trying to portray China as the aggressor and a threat when in fact it was China that stood against imperialism.

Well, if China really did stood up against imperialism, why did Mao bothered to accepted cease fire talks in 1951 when it is actually "kicking Americans back" to the 38th parallel? Why didn't China reclaim Taiwan when the Soviet Unions pulls out air and naval support? Lack of spirit and political will perhaps?

What is next, I'm a brainwash imperialist American agent? :roll:

Let me see my checklist:
Being accused as an Communist agent, check
Being accused as a snobbish British, check
Being accused as an Imperialist, check
Being accused as an Americanophile, check
Being accused as anti-China, check
Being accused as anti-South Korea, check

I must be doing something right in pissing off so many people in discussing Korean War.
 
Last edited:

raider1001

New Member
Back to Korean War, can anyone provide some real hard evidence of the soviet material aid to China during the war? I have found claims of "barely anything except limited air support" to " enough firearms and bullets to arm 64 divisions".....I personally felt the aid should be limited as the lack of soviet support was the beginning of the sino-soviet split?

From Beginning to January 1951, there was no Soviet support...the story has it that Stalin is testing to see whether China has to balls to take on Americans alone.

From January 1951 to 1952, there was a lot of Soviet support, from military equipments to helping China to build its own air force. After driving UN back to the 38th parallel, Stalin was convinced that China is a dependable ally.

From end of 1952 to the war's end, Soviet started to stop support. One factor is that the threat to Soviet Union is shifted back to Europe, another factor is that the war had became a drain on Soviet economy, and finally Stalin died while Nikita Khrushchev took over.
 

nameless

Junior Member
The classic argument...if you are not with us, then you are against us. Except for ROC, the other American "Allies" are all European powers that doesn't even have enough interests in Pacific affairs...do they even care about China enough to view it as a threat? Maybe the only way for China to gain respect is to eradicate anti-China thoughts everywhere?

So they are not American allies(do you even need quotes around the word allies)? America simply dominates western Europe in terms of military and economics after WW2, and at the end of the day they will follow America. Funny that you actually admit that you are anti-China while trying to claim other wise.

Well, if China really did stood up against imperialism, why did Mao bothered to accepted cease fire talks in 1951 when it is actually "kicking Americans back" to the 38th parallel? Why didn't China reclaim Taiwan when the Soviet Unions pulls out air and naval support? Lack of spirit and political will perhaps?

It was a stalemate, certainly not for the lack of effort on China's part to drive off the Americans. And since when was the SU trying to reclaim TW for China, especially when the USN was protecting TW?


What is next, I'm a brainwash imperialist American agent?

Let me see my checklist:
Being accused as an Communist agent, check
Being accused as a snobbish British, check
Being accused as an Imperialist, check
Being accused as an Americanophile, check
Being accused as anti-China, check
Being accused as anti-South Korea, check

I simply said you had an agenda in portraying China as the aggressor, the rest are all your own words, which shows your insecurities. Hypocrisy much?
 
Last edited:

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
there are some facts here worth stating

1)Mao thought that he could get heavy Soviet industry by entering the Korean war, but as usual Stalin was a lying rodent and that Soviet heavy industry never came

2)Had China not entered the Korean war, North Korea as a country would not exist

3)Had China not entered the war then USA would not had taken such a tough stance on Taiwan and China could have taken back Taiwan in the 1950s or 1960s

the advantages to China were

1)It stood up to a Western power and equaled it, and hence established itself as a power in Asia and the world

2)It stopped Western influence in the region and protected itself from further wars by stopping USA at 38th paralell and not the Yalu river

3)China established a "buffer" zone from which it felt more safe and no threat of invasion could come from Korean lands

they say time will tell, well in this case time has told, North Korea exists and is a headache for the rest of the world more importantly China itself which created North Korea, so in conclusion China made mistake by entering Korean war because it became everything it wanted by economic policys and not military policys

today China is what it is because it embraced open door policy and intergrated into the world, this is something they should have done in 1950 and not isolated itself until 1979

no further argument about it
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
they say time will tell, well in this case time has told, North Korea exists and is a headache for the rest of the world more importantly China itself which created North Korea, so in conclusion China made mistake by entering Korean war because it became everything it wanted by economic policys and not military policys

today China is what it is because it embraced open door policy and intergrated into the world, this is something they should have done in 1950 and not isolated itself until 1979

no further argument about it

No, I think that fighting in Korea was definitely a good move for China. You can't underestimate the value of the things you discussed earlier. Who knows what might have happened if the the US had had troops along the Yalu and they had thought that China was a weak power? The 20th century was a century of predators, and China had to show the other top level predators that it was one of them in order to get along.
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
there are some facts here worth stating

1)Mao thought that he could get heavy Soviet industry by entering the Korean war, but as usual Stalin was a lying rodent and that Soviet heavy industry never came

2)Had China not entered the Korean war, North Korea as a country would not exist

3)Had China not entered the war then USA would not had taken such a tough stance on Taiwan and China could have taken back Taiwan in the 1950s or 1960s

the advantages to China were

1)It stood up to a Western power and equaled it, and hence established itself as a power in Asia and the world

2)It stopped Western influence in the region and protected itself from further wars by stopping USA at 38th paralell and not the Yalu river

3)China established a "buffer" zone from which it felt more safe and no threat of invasion could come from Korean lands

they say time will tell, well in this case time has told, North Korea exists and is a headache for the rest of the world more importantly China itself which created North Korea, so in conclusion China made mistake by entering Korean war because it became everything it wanted by economic policys and not military policys

today China is what it is because it embraced open door policy and intergrated into the world, this is something they should have done in 1950 and not isolated itself until 1979

no further argument about it

Looking back in history, many things that had happen should not have happened. This statement was true in many senses... but there is also the situational circumstances that came into great play too.

China at that time had just been established and there is this fear of the US and western powers... the PRC being a communist nation had fought a bloody civil war with the nationalist (whose backing was the US) was obviously facing the US and western forces with distrust. Thus as the UN and (most importantly) the US pushes the North Korean to Yalu, the CHinese must react. Because they would never want the US at their doorstep... it is too much of a risk. The US could use that as a platform to launch massive attacks on China's heavily industrialise location bordering korea.

Thus situational circumstances at that time had needs for China to react and sent in troops to help North Korea pushes the UN and US out to 38 parallel.

Sometime we cannot just look at history with present mindset and circumstances and deduce that whatever action that had been taken in the past is correct or wrong, it is not very accurate actually... because we need to know the mindset, political, geographical situations at the time the decision are being made.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Digging up an old thread, because I got into an argument on some other forum about the performance of Chinese soldiers in the Korean War.

I did a little googling to back up my arguments with some sources, and found
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
:

The term "human wave attack" was often misused[11] to describe the Chinese short attack — a combination of infiltration and the shock tactics employed by the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) during the Korean War.[12] A typical Chinese short attack was carried out at night by small fireteams on a narrow front against the weakest point in enemy defenses.[12] The Chinese assault team would approach undetected within grenade range, then launch surprise attacks against the defenders in order to create a penetration and to achieve maximum shock and confusion.[12]
If the enemy defenses failed to give way after the initial shock, additional fireteams would press on and attack the same point until a wedge was created in the enemy's defense.[12] Once a penetration was achieved, the bulk of the Chinese forces would move into the enemy rear and attack from behind.[13] During the attacks, the Chinese assault teams would disperse while masking themselves using the terrain, and this made it difficult for UN defenders to target a large number of Chinese troops over a short period of time.[7] The attacks by the successive Chinese fireteams were also carefully timed to minimize casualties.[14] Due to the primitive communication systems and the tight political controls within the Chinese army, short attacks were often repeated indefinitely until the defenses were penetrated or the attackers were exhausted.[12]
This persistent attack pattern left a strong impression on UN forces that fought in Korea, thus the description of "human wave" was born.[8] US Army historian Roy Edgar Appleman observed that the term "human wave" was later used by journalists and military officials to convey the idea that the American soldiers were assaulted by overwhelming numbers of enemies, but it had no relation to the real Chinese infantry tactics of the same period.[1] S.L.A. Marshall also commented that the word "mass" was indiscriminately used by the media to describe Chinese infantry tactics, and it is very rare for the Chinese to actually use densely concentrated infantry formations to absorb enemy firepower.[15] In response to the media stereotype, a joke that circulated among the US servicemen was "how many hordes in a platoon?"[12][16]

If you check the references in this paragraph, the sources are almost all American. This shows a huge disconnect between scholars/historians and the general public on the understanding of the Korean War.

Almost every lay person in the West, including many who have served in the military, believe that China had an overwhelming numerical advantage in the Korean War. In fact, the Chinese + DPRK side had roughly the same strength as the UN + ROK side. Talk to these people about the Korean War, and they invariably paint a picture of US marines holding off "hordes" of "poorly equipped and poorly trained" chinese soldiers.

In fact, this stereotype is so deeply entrenched that even today, most Westerners think that China's army is huge but antiquated, consisting of millions of ill-equipped and poorly trained drafted peasants.

As a regular visitor of sinodefenceforum.com, it was easy for me to forget just how ignorant the general public is about the Korean War and the Chinese Military.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Digging up an old thread, because I got into an argument on some other forum about the performance of Chinese soldiers in the Korean War.

Took you that long to find this solarz :D :D?

The most interesting part is that people who wrote those articles tend to be veterans who actually served during the Korean War. "Experts" advocating the human wave tactics are usually your office based historian.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top