The design of a super-stealthy asymmetric anti-ship cruise missile..

lilzz

Banned Idiot
the feasibility study of a super-stealthy asynmmetric anti-ship cruise missile.

The missile would be contructed in the shape of flying wing much like the B-2. The skin and wing structure would feature RAM aborbent material and honey-comb. Of course, the materials of B-2 are classified so on this particular cruise missile, the RAM might not be as effective as the B-2, but it has other features as well. The cruise missile also has an on-board plasma generator. When the missile gets close enough to the ship and the ship 's defensive illuminating radar try to lock on this object, the plasma generator would be on and it would "unlock" everytime the radar try to lock on to it. If the illuminating radar cannot lock on this missile then its phallanx gun and intercepting missiles would be useless.

Within 20 KM, this super stealthy missile would turn off the engine and this wing structure would able to glide to the ship, this essentially render the IR seeker useless cause the engine is pretty much off and has little heat signature.

The super stealthy asymmetric cruise missile features high explosive bomb as well as microwave bomb, once it impact the ship, it would disable its electronic system if the ship hasn't sunk yet and it would leave it in a very defense-less state.
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
You will need to deal with a infra-red scanner that is present on most Western warships... such as the SIRIUS sensor...

Also, Phalanx Block IB has a FLIR sensor as well, in conjunction with a radar... and Phalanx is being replaced in service by the RIM-116 RAM, which is an infra-red guided missile...

Such a stealth anti-ship missile will be a very big missile, a missile that will be limited in launch platform, and will be visible on IR and FLIR. Not exactly feasible.

Another thing is that the larger anti-ship missiles emit radiation, because they are often radar guided.
 

lilzz

Banned Idiot
You will need to deal with a infra-red scanner that is present on most Western warships... such as the SIRIUS sensor...
Another thing is that the larger anti-ship missiles emit radiation, because they are often radar guided.

IR only works short range, as I mentioned, the missile would turn off the engine at the range, virtually no exhaust coming out, it's gliding.

What if missile is locking on to your radar signals from your ship, using passive detection.

If the missile is using active radar, it would feature LPDI, spread spectrum radar signals.
 

xuansu

New Member
IR only works short range, as I mentioned, the missile would turn off the engine at the range, virtually no exhaust coming out, it's gliding.

What if missile is locking on to your radar signals from your ship, using passive detection.

If the missile is using active radar, it would feature LPDI, spread spectrum radar signals.

2~3km is short enough for IR seeker, which is typical CIWS engagement range. Turning off the engine doesn't reduce IR emission down to the point of non-existence. The residual heat is more than enough for a ship born IR seeker, which could be extra large and cooled. Plus, your plasma anti-radar device would be a shinning beacon in IR spectrum. Since you can't possibly have plasma without having it been super heated, can you?
 

lilzz

Banned Idiot
2~3km is short enough for IR seeker, which is typical CIWS engagement range. Turning off the engine doesn't reduce IR emission down to the point of non-existence. The residual heat is more than enough for a ship born IR seeker, which could be extra large and cooled. Plus, your plasma anti-radar device would be a shinning beacon in IR spectrum. Since you can't possibly have plasma without having it been super heated, can you?

It doesn't have to be non-existence. The residual heat? your mean from air friction? The missile is gliding at pretty slow speed. IR detection also degrades drastically when it's raining also.
plasma generator is only on when the radar is trying lock on to it, but typically radar try to detect object at what 20-200KM? even if the plasma is on it's way out of the range of the IR device. Plus the missile feature radar absorbing RAM, I doubt your radar will ever try lock to it at far distance, so probably the plasma device will never needed to be on.
which means the radar is not aware of it until the missile is within the IR range, provided IR seeker detect something. At 2-3km, the missile can also firing out heat decoys. But I seriously doubt IR seeker can detect air friction heat from a gliding object especially on a rainy or foggy day.
 
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Pointblank

Senior Member
It doesn't have to be non-existence. The residual heat? your mean from air friction? The missile is gliding at pretty slow speed. IR detection also degrades drastically when it's raining also.
plasma generator is only on when the radar is trying lock on to it, but typically radar try to detect object at what 20-200KM? even if the plasma is on it's way out of the range of the IR device. Plus the missile feature radar absorbing RAM, I doubt your radar will ever try lock to it at far distance, so probably the plasma device will never needed to be on.
which means the radar is not aware of it until the missile is within the IR range, provided IR seeker detect something. At 2-3km, the missile can also firing out heat decoys. But I seriously doubt IR seeker can detect air friction heat from a gliding object especially on a rainy or foggy day.

You are talking about one large missile then to do all of that... easy target for a CIWS, coupled to a IR sensor and a FLIR.
 

lilzz

Banned Idiot
You are talking about one large missile then to do all of that... easy target for a CIWS, coupled to a IR sensor and a FLIR.

The CIWS's small localized tracking radar is weak, it's not SPY-1 which can crank up MW of power. CIWS radar is not sufficient to detect or lock on stealth object.

Again, do you know the IR sensor can detect a carbon based nonmetallic surfaced gliding object in a rainy day? I don't think folks have benchmark tests on that. Does anybody know IR seeker can detect a object let say a hang glider because of the heat from air friction? That's so small.

ALso, even if the IR sensor can detect something but ultimately you need your radar to lock on to the objects which I think the stealth feature of RAM abosrbent+Plasma generator can defeat that.
 
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crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
CIWS tracking radar is actually quite strong, about as powerful or more so than that of a large fighter jet. Furthermore, they are based on phase array , which allows the beam to maximize in concentration. Even the missile and gun tracking radars used in the PLAN ships in order to guide AK-630s and HQ-7 are phase arrays.

Another thing is that I think Lilzz, you underestimate what you can do with thermal detection. Look at the way they are used in astronomy, and please note how faint thermal radiation is when its coming from another star. Even the commercial instruments are very sensitive and is able to make complete IR images even in very cold temperature. Have you ever seen the show "Ghosthunters" in Sci-Fi channel? I see them use a hand held digital imaging FLIR, and they can pick out with great contrast even individual mice hiding inside a cold barn. Heck, they can pick out the thermal signatures created by the "deceased". Other case in point, the ASAT tests. All the successful kinetic tests done by China or the US has something in common---a thermal seeker so sensitive it can pick out objects in the sheer cold of space. Now to say that you need a radar seeker after that to lock on to the object is not true---the thermal seeker will do it all on its own as you can see with the examples. In fact, thermal locks a lot better than radar, because its much shorter frequency means more radiant energy to produce a signal on the receiving end, and its shorter frequency means greater informational resolution compared to even X or K band radar.

Even on a rainy day, water does not stay long on the surface of a missile because of the air speeds rushing past it. Furthermore, the air friction will generate heat, which can be combined with the sun's own heat soaking on the missile's surface. The truth is you can greatly reduce the distances of IR detection by measures such as surface cooling, but not eliminate it. Even then your exhaust will surely leave a hot plume behind it, and attempts to muffle this radiation, only reduces it, but not eliminate it.

In the future, we can expect CIWS or various tracking systems to get smarter through the use of TBD algorithms, meaning "Track Before Detection". TBD means to get incomplete data, and then using the incomplete data to do a Baynesian analysis aka Fuzzy Logic to make a prediction where the target object would be or its flight path.
 

MrClean

New Member
I think that you're underestimating the capability of modern FLIR and IR sensors just a little bit. Even if this hypothetical missile were to shut off it's engine/propellant system a few kilometers away it will still have alot of residual heat from both the engine and air friction. A cruise missile that's been afterburning for the past 100km's or so isn't going to cool off that fast, it will be cooler and probably will have less of an IR signature but as Pointblank said above the IR signature won't be non-existant.

And if this hypothetical missile is designed to be a derivitive of the B-2 style flying wing and be stealth and have a plasma generator and all of the other do-dads that you mentioned it will more than likely be the most costliest of all CM/AShM ever designed. Both in program development and in hypothetical unit cost, don't forget that the B-2 is the most expensive aircraft ever built. That's alot of budget money to be spent on a missile that probably wouldn't get past the R&D stage. Even if it did, it's still alot of money and military resources being spent on something who's sole purpose is to inevitably blow itself up ;)
 

globedweller

Just Hatched
Registered Member
greeting's all

why go super sonic, i'm a tech on a navy vessel and also loves radio controled airplanes and made the mistake ones to fly it from the helicopter deck, our goalkeeper crew did like to have some training, only the system did not get a lock on, so low tech go's high tech
 
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