The Demise pf the Avro Arrow Canadian Interceptor

SinoSoldier

Colonel
If you want a real aviation tearjerker, read up on what the Diefenbaker government did to the Canadian Arrow project (arguably by far the most capable aircraft of the 1950s).


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This thread will be about the Avro Arrow interceptor, which was an advanced and very capable interceptor built in the late 1950s by Avro in Canada:

Here are some pictures:

Arrow-201a.jpg

Arrow-201.jpg

Arrow-202.jpg

Arrow-203.jpg

Arrow-204.jpg

Five aircraft were complete, the first four in flight testing and the fifth, with a new Canadian Iroquois Engine ready for flight when the program was abruptly cancelled and all aircraft, all drawings, all plans, and all tooling destroyed by the Canadian government.

The specifications for the aircraft, pictures and the stories of the first five aircraft, and the reasons for the cancellation can all be discussed here.

But, please do stay away from pure politics, and outlandish conspiracy theories.

Jeff Head

Super Moderator
 
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vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
If you want a real aviation tearjerker, read up on what the Diefenbaker government did to the Canadian Arrow project (arguably by far the most capable aircraft of the 1950s).

Some say it was the American that pressured him to do it
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Some say it was the American that pressured him to do it

I can see how some may have arrived at that presumption, especially considering how much the US had pressured Ottawa into purchasing Bomarc missiles. However, it doesn't make sense to force a cancellation of the program, recycle all completed prototypes, purge every single document pertaining to the program, and fire all the involved engineers, when the US itself had expressed interest in acquiring the jet (especially the revolutionary Iroquois engines). The US did overtly propose to purchase the jet or at least get some ToT, but could not do so in time. I also don't recall the US building its own copies after project termination, so the cancellation probably had much of an impact on the USAF as it did on the RCAF.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I can see how some may have arrived at that presumption, especially considering how much the US had pressured Ottawa into purchasing Bomarc missiles. However, it doesn't make sense to force a cancellation of the program, recycle all completed prototypes, purge every single document pertaining to the program, and fire all the involved engineers, when the US itself had expressed interest in acquiring the jet (especially the revolutionary Iroquois engines). The US did overtly propose to purchase the jet or at least get some ToT, but could not do so in time. I also don't recall the US building its own copies after project termination, so the cancellation probably had much of an impact on the USAF as it did on the RCAF.
For its time, the Arrow was an excellent aircraft. In the late 1970s, while working at Vought Aeronautics, I took interest in its story.

As to the demise of the arrow, the principle reason had to do with funding and a split amongst leading defense personnel and politicians as to where to spend the money

At the time, the US and Canada were very busy developing NORAD and particularly upgrading the system and automating as much as possible with the Semi-Automatic Ground Environ ment (SAGE) program and the desire to push new, high performance interceptor missile further north.

The Diefenbaker government, elected in 1957, was very much in favor of the NORAD commitments. Ultimately, that administration decided to side with the personnel (particularly Army and Navy) who were against the Arrow, as well as the pliticians arrayed against it. They decided they could do one (Arrow or NORAD), but not do both.

So they very precipitously cancelled the Arrow project in February 1959 which immediately threw about 14,000 Avro personnel out of work, and another 15,000 or so contractors.

Four Mark I aircraft with P&W engines had been completed and were involved in flight testing, which had gone very well from the first flight in March 1958.

One Mark II aircraft with the new Iroquois engines had been completed, and was ready for taxi tests at the time, but had not yet flown. A big design review was scheduled for March 1959, and though the Avro executives new their were serious concerns about the program and its government funding, they thought surely that review would be allowed to go through...but they were wrong and were thus caught completely by surprise with the announcement.

As to whay everything wa so precipitously destroyed...all plans, drawings, tooling, and exoisting aircraft?

That has been a source of a LOT of discussion over the years. One of the most prevelent thoughts was that Avro was in the process of being penetrated by Soviet spies, This allegation was put foreward by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, but went unproven for many years. However, when the KGB officer, Vasil Mitrokhin, who worked in the KGB's First Chief Directorate defected in 1992 to England, and brought all of his notes with him, it was shown that indeed KGB spires were attempting to penetrate Avro at the time.

So, yes...it was a sad thing for the Arrow, which was going to be an extremely good aircraft...and to this day the cancellation date is known as "Black Friday," for the Canadian Aerospace Industry. It ended the Arrow aircraft immediately, and really, IMHO, led to the destruction of an excellent aerospace firm, Avro.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Here's a sad picture of when the aircraft were being dismantled in 1959. You see four aircraft here, RL-201, RL-203, RL-204, and RL-205:

Arrow-dismantle.jpg
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Now, let's compare the Avro Arrow CF-105 aircraft with similar, contemporary interceptors in US Air Force use at the time.

The US had two interceptors that had similar charactoeristicvs in terms of their speed, alititude, and function. Boith first flew in 1956, the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter, which was introduced to USAF service in 1958, and the Convair F-106 Delta Dart, which was introduced into USAF service in 1959.

Both of these were developed and introduced in the same time frame (just a little ahead) as the Avro Arrow, CF-105.

Here's the Arrow-CF-105 Characteristics:
arrow-201a-jpg.17307


Max Speed: Mach 1.98 (Expected to have gone over Mach 2 with the Iroquois Engine)
Ceiling: 53,000 ft.
Combat Radius: 660 km

Here's the F-104 Starfighter (including the CF-104) Characteristics:
F104-01.jpg
CF104-01.jpg

Max Speed: Mach 2.01)
Ceiling: 50,000 ft.
Combat Radius: 670 km

Here's the F-106 Delta Dart Characteristics:
F106-01.jpg
Max Speed: Mach 2.3)
Ceiling: 57,000 ft.
Combat Radius: 1,450 km

All good aircraft with similar characteristics. The F-106 arguably had the best characteristics...but it was trul single role interceptor. The F-104 was adapted into other roles.

Ultimately, five CF-105 Arrows were built before it was cancelled. 2,575 F-105 Starfighters were built and it was used by fifteen different countries...including Canada (who got 200 of them) starting in 1961. The last Starfighters were retired by Italy in 2004.

Only 340 F-106 delta Darts were built and it was used exclusively by the US Air Force. The last Delta Dart were retired form the US Air National Guard in 1988, and by NASA who had some test aircraft, in 1998.

To replace the role that the CF-105 would have fulfilled, Canada ultimately bought 66 (actually they were transferred to Canada in exchange for Canada manning numerous NORAD stations In Canada that up to that time had been manned by the USAF). CF-101 Voodoo aircraft (in addition to the F-104 Starfighters) and used them as interceptors.

CF-101 VooDoo Characteristics:
CF101-01.jpg

Max Speed: Mach: Mach 1.72
Service Ceiling: 58,000 ft.
Combat Radius: 1,230 km

The aircraft began service in Canada in 1961. Ultimately, Canada replaced the intial 66 CF-101s with another batch of 66 with lower air frame hours and these last batch served until being retired in 1987.

Had the CF-105 Arrow been produced, they would have been used and and the purchase of the 200 CF-104s would not have occurred, or the 66 CF-101s. I expect upwards of 300 CF-105s would have been produced.

As it was the CF-104s and the CF-101s served in Canada until being replaced by the RF-18 Hornets (138 of them)...which were introduced starting in 1982, and are still in service.
 
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SinoSoldier

Colonel
For its time, the Arrow was an excellent aircraft. In the late 1970s, while working at Vought Aeronautics, I took interest in its story.

As to the demise of the arrow, the principle reason had to do with funding and a split amongst leading defense personnel and politicians as to where to spend the money

At the time, the US and Canada were very busy developing NORAD and particularly upgrading the system and automating as much as possible with the Semi-Automatic Ground Environ ment (SAGE) program and the desire to push new, high performance interceptor missile further north.

The Diefenbaker government, elected in 1957, was very much in favor of the NORAD commitments. Ultimately, that administration decided to side with the personnel (particularly Army and Navy) who were against the Arrow, as well as the pliticians arrayed against it. They decided they could do one (Arrow or NORAD), but not do both.

So they very precipitously cancelled the Arrow project in February 1959 which immediately threw about 14,000 Avro personnel out of work, and another 15,000 or so contractors.

Four Mark I aircraft with P&W engines had been completed and were involved in flight testing, which had gone very well from the first flight in March 1958.

One Mark II aircraft with the new Iroquois engines had been completed, and was ready for taxi tests at the time, but had not yet flown. A big design review was scheduled for March 1959, and though the Avro executives new their were serious concerns about the program and its government funding, they thought surely that review would be allowed to go through...but they were wrong and were thus caught completely by surprise with the announcement.

As to whay everything wa so precipitously destroyed...all plans, drawings, tooling, and exoisting aircraft?

That has been a source of a LOT of discussion over the years. One of the most prevelent thoughts was that Avro was in the process of being penetrated by Soviet spies, This allegation was put foreward by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, but went unproven for many years. However, when the KGB officer, Vasil Mitrokhin, who worked in the KGB's First Chief Directorate defected in 1992 to England, and brought all of his notes with him, it was shown that indeed KGB spires were attempting to penetrate Avro at the time.

So, yes...it was a sad thing for the Arrow, which was going to be an extremely good aircraft...and to this day the cancellation date is known as "Black Friday," for the Canadian Aerospace Industry. It ended the Arrow aircraft immediately, and really, IMHO, led to the destruction of an excellent aerospace firm, Avro.

Wow, thanks for putting some interesting political and military context behind the Arrow's cancellation.

I'd like to add that another major factor working against the Arrow was the advent of suborbital weaponry (i.e. ballistic missiles). When Sputnik was launched in 1957, Canadian and US defense analysts predicted (and correctly so) that its launch vehicle would eventually pave the way for space-based weapons. They believed that ICBMs would shoehorn out bomber aircraft as the primary carrier of nuclear weapons and thus eliminate the need for high-performance interceptors like the Arrow.

What's also unfortunate is that Avro and Orenda never had the chance to utilize what they have learnt during the development of the Arrow and Iroquois, respectively, to make room for advanced future combat aircraft for the RCAF.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Wow, thanks for putting some interesting political and military context behind the Arrow's cancellation.

I'd like to add that another major factor working against the Arrow was the advent of suborbital weaponry (i.e. ballistic missiles).

They believed that ICBMs would shoehorn out bomber aircraft as the primary carrier of nuclear weapons and thus eliminate the need for high-performance interceptors like the Arrow..
There were many considerations, it is true.

There were those who felt ICBMs would pretty much render aircraft bombers obsolete.

But the US...and then Russia and the UK, France, and ultimately China...and now India is doing the same...believed that a triad would be most effective in assuring a MAD (mutually assured destruction) policy. So ICMBs, SLBM (sub launched), and aircraft carried nuclear weapons became the three legs of the triad.

The US, Russia, and China still maintain all three legs...though, to be sure, the bomber leg these days is pretty much the weakest.

The sub-launched is considered by most (these days) as the most effective deterrent...because they are so hard to locate and can move around freely.

In the end...I believe the loss of the Arrow was a bad thing. It was a great aircraft for its time. Capable, competitive, and would have been good for Canada.

...and who knows what Avro would have been able to go on and develop later had they had that type of contract and developed the reputation that would have gone along with it.
 

Scratch

Captain
The Avro Arrow was supposed to carry 8 "AIM-4" or 3 "AIM-7 Sparrow II 2D" active radar missiles.
However, when I'm looking I seem unable to find any info on the latter missile or any picture or drawing of the Arrow carrying those missiles.
Does anyone know what those missiles would have been or looked like?
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
There were many considerations, it is true.

There were those who felt ICBMs would pretty much render aircraft bombers obsolete.

But the US...and then Russia and the UK, France, and ultimately China...and now India is doing the same...believed that a triad would be most effective in assuring a MAD (mutually assured destruction) policy. So ICMBs, SLBM (sub launched), and aircraft carried nuclear weapons became the three legs of the triad.

The US, Russia, and China still maintain all three legs...though, to be sure, the bomber leg these days is pretty much the weakest.

The sub-launched is considered by most (these days) as the most effective deterrent...because they are so hard to locate and can move around freely.

In the end...I believe the loss of the Arrow was a bad thing. It was a great aircraft for its time. Capable, competitive, and would have been good for Canada.

...and who knows what Avro would have been able to go on and develop later had they had that type of contract and developed the reputation that would have gone along with it.

The cancellation of the Arrow was certainly a major blow to not only Canada's aerospace industry, but that of North American (and the West) in general.

The US had shown considerable interest in acquiring or producing the Arrow under license, but the cancellation prevented the USAF from obtaining a platform that was almost a decade ahead of anything the Soviets had. The Arrow also had further blocks planned that were to achieve Mach 3.0+ speed, and I suspect that it would have made a very capable fighter-bomber platform as well if such a need precipitated.

Nevertheless, the delta wing design that emerged from the development of the Arrow continues to resonate in aircraft designs generations beyond.
 
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