The Chinese in WW2 (Pic thread)

[Kampfwagen]

France could've repelled the Nazis?!

It's generaly accepted that if command structure had not been so sloppy (For instance, there is a famous story about an entire garrison of french troops that surrendered to a single Panzer on nothing more than a bluff on the part of the Panzer commander.) that they might have held off, at least for the first years of the war, an invasion by Germany. Training also had something to do with it, and the British came too late and in too few numbers to help.

A few more pictures!

A poster from an American aid group.

A Chinese-Made version of an american armored car. Under Marshal Liu Hsiang, 37 of these became an armored divison. These were typicaly armed with a 37MM cannon with an option of two MG's in crude turrets.

A Chinese-Made copy of the French FT-17. Several of these were owned by the Warlord Chang Tso-Lin. After his assassination, their guns were turned from other Chinese to Japanese soliders by Chang's son after his fathers assassination by the Japanese.

Instantly recognizeable to anyone intrested in WW2 German Tanks, these are the Pzkpfw (Panzerkampfwagen) 1 tanks. There were only ten issued to the Third Tank Batallion in Nanking. At Nanking, most were re-fitted with the Nationalist Sunburst insignia.

Ironicaly, both Panzers and Russian tanks, specificaly T-26 tanks. Also in the Chinese inventory were American tanks and other British tanks.

 

[Red Guard]

actually. northeast army uses czech designed rifles. and since the japanese are behind them, their czech designed rifle is mixed with 38 rifle too. besides. no warlords could say they have a standard rifle. it's always mixed. soemthing this, something that.

 

[darth sidious]

the Ft-17 was captured by japan when they invaded manchuria

also the panverIs were all lost during the battle of nanking

 

[sumdud]

OK, there is one racist word in this thread that keeps reappearing.
People, please do not use the word "Jap", instead use "Japanese".
"Jap" is a racist word and it will not be tolerated here. :nono:

 

[Red Guard]

the Ft-17 was captured by japan when they invaded manchuria

also the panverIs were all lost during the battle of nanking

how come i remember that's battle of shanghai? they said they sunk those tanks in the river, and later photos taken by the JAPANESE army show that they were kept in great condition on the land, AND DRY TOO.
so many traitors in the army, so many traitors in the nation.

PS, with my great hate towards them, i don't even want to call them jap, but i promise i will use the word japanese, as i show my repect to the forum.

 

[renmin]

I would do the same thing as Red Gaurd, no matter how much I hate those barbarreans (no offense), I would not be racist towards them. Any way, I think on september 18, japan was in control of half of China. and yes there were many Chinese traitors of what the Chinese call Han jian. A word to call Chinese traitors or any person who betrayed, their own country. I would say that the communist delt with traitors quite fairly, for one thing, traitors who helped the Japanese build camps etc. did not recieve the death penalty but instead, 10 years in prison while other countries would of exicuted them but some traitors who did sevire things like joined their army or giving information to the japanese where exicuted, quite fair I must say.

 

[darth sidious]

tanks used during the battle of shanghai are the vickers tanks

and yes there is a pic of a japanese officer with a captured panzer I

but thats in naking

 

[renmin]

Generaly speaking, The japanese massacered through Chinese defenses, when you look at it, China was only armed with macine guns and a few cannons, while the japanese had tanks,a navy, aircraft etc. Japans enitial retreat was because of the A-bomb and the work of the Comunist soilders. Airstrikes were common in China, my grandfather's friend was killed by a Japanese airstrike of Zero fighters. My grandfather found his friend's leg hanging on a telephone pole (seriously). luckly, the airstrke missed my grandfather's house. As for the invasion, most of the time the japanses were looking for where the comunist were hiding so they asked the civilians, and if the civilians won't tell, well then comes the un-human like torturing.

 

[WEN?]

as renmin said the chinese didn't really have the resources the japanese had. the comunists lead by Mao Ze Dong were guerilla warriors not frontline soldiers like the japanese. bearing in mind that the chinese were still in a state of civil war they were in a bad state. also Mao Ze Dong had to threaten Chen cai sheck(can't spell) at gun point to make him fight along side against the japanese. the only reason the chinese had some good equipment was that the Americans were supporting them but the aid given to Chen cai sheck was held in reserve by him for later to finish of the communists after the japanese were defeated.

 

[Ender Wiggin]

Okay, from my studying of the Red Army during the second Sino-Japanese war, while it is true that the GMD slowed down and stopped fighting major battles, the same could be said of the Red Army (who did not fight as you'ld think under the command of the Nationalists), mainly because it got to the point where they could not fight the japanese to their fullest and worry about the GMD at the same time and eventually while conducting geurrilla warfare was also like the GMD building up and conserving strength to fight the GMD, both sides did this.

However the difference is how they saved strength, while operations like the "Hundred Regiments Offencive" ceased due to the weakening of reserves leaving them vulnerable to bullying form Chiang Kai Shek geurilla fighting and mobile "people's war" continued since these were the most effective way to build up the strength of the Red Army within Japanese occupied territory, gain spies and sympathizors behind Japanese lines.

The CCP started the war with barely 50,000 men on paper, by 1941 they had 500,000 Red Army members and by 1945 1,000,000. and by 1949 outnumbered the Nationalists 3 to 1. All through tactics used in the peoples war.

For example, the red army would liberate a village they might stay for a bit buy some supplies then leave and move on, the village families would pressure their able bodies young adults to join them seeing others doing it inorder to gain prestige. Then they're was the anti-japanese sentiment in the north, anyone who wanted to fight back found the Red Army the best way to do so and joined, became loyal to the Red Army and later on fought the Nationalists.

The Nationalists troops, demoralized from bad leadership, crushing defeats, poor food and clothing, and completely hostile and horrible conditions joined the Red Army at every oppurtunity.

Example: 100 men would be conscripted for the GMD, they would have to walk barefoot for days over many li towards the front, given little training and even less food and clothing would be forced naked into a room marely able to keep 2 families smushed with some 30-100 other soldiers naked and chained hand and foot to prevent desertion.

Many died enroute to the front and those that did make it, seeing death almost every moment and risking their lives for no good purpose joined the Red Army upon capture.

The Red Army generally from 1931 onwards employed these basic rules: it was all voluntary anyone could leave even GMD prisoners.

Officers could not hit you.

And I forget the last one. I think you were garunteed food or something, I forget.

*********************

Okay I just read the previous post and you couldn't be more wrong. Chiang Kai Shek (western spelling) was about to commence his 6th and last encirclement campaign (this was when the Japanese were just beginning to invade China in 1937) however a few months previously, Mao and Chou Enlai had befriended the Manchurian yet exiled warlord (name can't remember) who was employed by the Nationalists to defend Shansi and keep the Yan'an base area contained, however he was pissed off at Chiang for Chiang's refusal to liberate Manchuria (because Chiang then was busy attacking the Jiangsi Soviet Republic), so when the Long March ended and Mao and the surviving Red Army was recuperating in Yan'an he made a deal with the warlord to gain a breathing space and find supplies, money and recruits in Shansi.

However back to the future a bit, Chiang was just about to launch his last and final encurclement campaign to finally in his mind destory the Communist Threat to his regime, but the warlord knowing that the Japanese were a far greater threat arrested Chiang Kai Shek. Chaing's wife and near relatives negotiated with the warlord and the Communists and agreed to forge the Unified Front and fight the Japanese.

Mao did no such thing as holding Chiang at gunpoint and was in no position to do so, it was essentially Chiang's own troops that did it for him.