Taiwan Military News Thread

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SampanViking

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Hardly though, the way to treat the father of the nation:confused:

But then again, if you are a discredited party, with a lame duck leader and president, with no chance of implementing its core agenda, or sucesfully delivering any significant part of its manifesto and actively promoting polices which are visibaly hurting the standing and prospects of the country, then I suppose these kind, of mean, petty and spiteful acts are all they really have left.
 
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Hardly though, the way to treat the father of the nation

But then again, if you are a discredited party....... then I suppose these kind, of mean, petty and spiteful acts are all they really have left.

Sampan, why should the Taiwanese revere a man who is held responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of civilians and imposed martial law on the island, not lifting it before he died nearly three decades later?

It seems pretty cruel to suggest a dictator like Chiang should be remembered positively by his victims - even the Chinese are generally quite negative towards him. So why are you so opposed to the statues being removed - you don't really think that dictators like him should have statues in military installations, do you?
 
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Vlad Plasmius

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If it was for that I would be all for it, but this is just an attempt by the DPP to whitewash Taiwan's history. Why does it seem everyone in Asia is trying to change their history? First Japan, then China, and now Taiwan.

Doesn't the ROCA still have a united China as their emblem?
 
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If it was for that I would be all for it, but this is just an attempt by the DPP to whitewash Taiwan's history.

You are right in that the timing is politically motivated. But surely keeping the statues where they were as if he had been a positive role-model is an even worse case of whitewashing Taiwan's history. It had to be done sometime - at least it's over and done with now.

Doesn't the ROCA still have a united China as their emblem?

Are you talking about the ROC flag, or something else?
 

BLUEJACKET

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IMO by removing his statues they try to show how democratic Taiwan has become, while
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are still standing on the Mainland. Also, since Chiang wanted to reunify with China under the KMT, now that his likeness is removed the current leadership is saying: there is one China and one Taiwan, and the latter is not part of the former- a subtle way to pronounce their de-facto independance!
 

LIGO

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IMO by removing his statues they try to show how democratic Taiwan has become, while
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are still standing on the Mainland. Also, since Chiang wanted to reunify with China under the KMT, now that his likeness is removed the current leadership is saying: there is one China and one Taiwan, and the latter is not part of the former- a subtle way to pronounce their de-facto independance!

I don’t think that so many people in China actively hate Mao, and many people in China do regard him as a great revolutionary leader. His poetry, for one thing, is still often quoted. So why would people in China be so keen on removing his statues? I also remember (I could be wrong) Sun Yat-sen’s portrait is also at Tiananmen Square, albeitedly Mao’s portrait is at the most obvious place.

Furthermore, according to Wikipedia, "As the Chinese government instituted free market economic reforms starting in the late 1970's, it also put less emphasis on studying Mao. This accompanied a decline in state recognition of Mao in later years in contrast to previous years when the state organized numerous events and seminars commemorating Mao's 100th birthday."

"On March 13, 2006, a story in the People's Daily (the official newspaper of the Communist Party of China) reported that a proposal had been made to replace Mao's portrait on currency with that of Sun Yat-sen and Deng Xiaoping."


Sampan, why should the Taiwanese revere a man who is held responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of civilians and imposed martial law on the island, not lifting it before he died nearly three decades later?

It seems pretty cruel to suggest a dictator like Chiang should be remembered positively by his victims - even the Chinese are generally quite negative towards him. So why are you so opposed to the statues being removed - you don't really think that dictators like him should have statues in military installations, do you?

It is true that Chiang is a dictator. However, he has done many positive things, for example commanding the Northern Expedition army that reunited China from a warlord era. Also, according to Wikipedia (it is up to you to judge the validity of its argument), while Chiang was at Taiwan, “As the head of KMT and its major representative at the International Democrat Union congresses he helped to introduce elements of another world right wing parties in Taiwan such as property rights and economic freedom which later led to many civil liberties that ended in democracy after his dead in the late 1970s, the early 1980s and the 1990s.”

The Chinese version of Chiang’s page on Wikipedia has a more complete list of the judgments of Chiang, both positive and negative. There is also a professor at Columbia University, Tang Degang, who thinks Chiang is one of the greatest national heroes in Chinese history. So it really depends on where you look.
 

Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
Are you talking about the ROC flag, or something else?

I'm talking about something in the army. A patch, or medal maybe. It apparently shows a unified China, so far no effort has been made to changes those that I know.
 

Ryz05

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The China today is because of Deng Xiaoping, who initiated economic reforms. Mao Zedong is just a figurehead of the Communist Pary. Many farmers, villagers, and migrant workers are still fond of Mao, who glorified them during the Cultural Revolution. Because Mao is still considered the father of the Party and is respected among the poor, his statues and pictures remain. On the otherhand, Chiang Kai-Shek is mostly respected in Taiwan for having escaped the Communists, and made Taiwan sovereign in a sense. With so many Taiwanese losing their roots by not knowing any relatives on the mainland, of course they'll think mainland is a different country. It's also because of prejudice - that they think mainland Chinese are dumber or poorer, which causes them to want to separate themselves from China. China is not saying anything about the removal of statues and images, because they remember Chiang's treachery that almost got the former Communist Party founders killed. Personally, I think the removal of Chiang Kai-shek's statues and images is pathetic. It will not do anything and appears as if the Taiwanese are itching for a scratch.
 
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Violet Oboe

Junior Member
Never thought I would cheer Chen Shui Bian´s separatist government but now the moment has come!

Although the political tactics (someone called this pathetic) of this statue tumbling are quite transparent the fact remains that Chiang Jie Shi was one of the worst and most corrupt military leaders of the 20th century and without doubt Japan would have succeeded in colonizing half of the motherland if this inept ´peanut´(his nickname by US military attache general Joe Stilwell) had not got the heaven sent help of japanese megalomanian arrogance (decision to attack the US) and the eventually effective military assistance of the USA (plus allies UK, USSR).

A memorial depicting Chiang in his pyjamas hiding shivering in a barn like he did during the famous Xian incident in 1936 would be completely adequate for this kind of degenerate.
 
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