USA:The masters of hypocrisy!


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Soyuz

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Sea Dog said:
First point, it was up to the Iraqi's to prove that THEY were in compliance with the agreements. Hussein was found in non-compliance of 1441 by not providing 'immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted acess' to all sites of inspectors choosing. Gee, I wonder why. Hussein failed. Iraq was also in violation of 1373. 1373 dilineated Hussein's shelter and support of terrorist organizations. Remember when Saddam was paying terrorist families $10,000 a pop for every terrorist act committed? Do you know what Salman Pak is? And in regards to the WMD, ain't it funny how Russian, British, U.S., and several other national intelligence infrastructures all came up with the same intelligence showing Iraq had WMD? We gave the Saddam 14 years to comply. Enough is enough.

And the Oil-for-Food had everything to do with it. It is UN corruption at it's finest. The UN's very own resolution 1441 had shown that proceeds from the sales were going into direct weapons purchases....not the Iraqi people. Money was also being funneled directly into the pockets of corrupt UN officials, so we found. Surprise, surprise. Where's your outrage over this corruption, sir? Where's your compassion for the Iraqi people? Wake up, dude. You're other point, you may disagree, but the Israeli's aren't the ones using their territory to conduct suicide bomb attacks on innocent Hamas families. Are you calling for the U.S. to go invade Israel to force Israel out of the West Bank?

Your point about human rights is valid. But like I said, it wasn't government sanctioned torture at Abu Ghraib, and all involved are being punished. So what's your point? Next.

The Iraqi's have voted for a constitution and are making significant progress towards making their society better. I wonder why so many people want them to fail? Don't let your anti-U.S. hatred destroy what the Iraqi's are trying to build, sir. You say this war is unwinnable? Time will tell. We have good and bad days there, but we're definitely making progress.

On WMD all i can say are where is this massive arsenal of weapons that we were told saddam had and which posed such a significant threat!. Two and a half years after the invasion and nothing substantial has been found in short the US and others were lying or they have bad intelligence gathering methods. Even Rumsfeld conceeded defeat last year in the search for WMD in Iraq. Althougth on the issue of WMD in Iraq one should not forget who armed and assisted Iraq in the first place, the soviet union (who later turned against him) and the western powers including america who encouraged him to attack neighbouring Iran after the Islamic revolution there in 1979.

As for Saddam supporting Islamic extremists such as Bin Laden this is absurd! the express goal of al qaeda is to create a islamic superstate ( or caliphate as its known) governed by the teachings of the koran or shariah law. However saddams regime whilst brutal was a secular one which was based on principles of Arab socialism as espoused by the Egyptian leader Nasser, indeed woman had equql status with men and non muslim religions were freely practiced in Saddams Iraq. However all of these aspects go against the teachings of the Koran as the likes of Bin laden interpret it and therefore they despised him and his regime and view him as an infidel. Indeed Saddam faced opposition domestically from some imams and he often persecuted them for this. Also don't forget that the CIA supported the Contra terrorists in Nicaragua is one of many examples of this, so the US can hardly take the moral high ground on this issue!

Well i'll agree that there is some corruption in the UN but what do you propose that it is done away with and replaced with what?
Also no organisation is perfect and corruption will always be a problem, even in your own country look at the recent arrest of the republican congressman Tom DeLay on corruption charges. Anyway if indeed Saddam was using oil for food to buy weapons then WHERE ARE THEY? after all they do say that seeing is believing!

Well if you think i have no compassion for the Iraqi people that must mean that the american gov't despises them! after all thousands of them have died as a result of The US led invasion two and a half years ago and even more in the preceeding ten years of periodic bombings, thats probably something Saddam even atb his most bloodthirsty would have struggled to do!

As for Israel well they don't have to use suicide bombings to kill palestinians as they can just use F-16s etc against defenceless palestinan refugee camps! also i believe unlike Bush that violence is not always the answer i'm sure the US could just threaten to withdraw some of the massive amount of aid it gives to israel as an easy way of enforcing the UN resolutions although it chooses not to. BTW not all palestinians are i n Hamas!

In terms of Human rights i believe that it is enevitable that in any war there will be human rights abuses so in effect the order to invade Iraq without a full UN authorisation (due to the french veto) and on a false basis (claims about non existant wmd) was the US sanctioning such acts.

To me Iraq isn't getting any better (not that i am happy about the fate that has befallen it at the moment) in fact it is getting worse and is completely immersed in a bloody civil war and the US invasion has led to the destabilisation of the country and allowed the infiltration of foreign jihadis such as jordanian born Al-zarqawi. My view is that Iraq will probably end up breaking up like Yugoslavia.

I still maintain that this so called war on terrorism is unwinable if the US continue to fight it as they have up to now. As i come from a country which has experienced prolonged terrorist activities, where the British tried to fight terrorism using conventional methods of warfare as the US is doing which merely led to a bloody stalemate between the two.

Well i wouldn't say i hate the US, undoutedly it has done a lot of good things for the world but i do think that its foreign policy leaves a lot to be desired! BTW i am a student of History and Politics at university and the more i learn about the US foreign policy the more p***ed off i get!

Sea Dog i respect your love of your country and you have every right and reason to do so however i feel that that your patriotism may have blinded you to some of the more unseemly aspects of US foreign policy, after all no nation is perfect!

I suggest you have a look at these sites, there both by americans!

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chopsticks

Junior Member
good points soyuz.

about the part of Us not getting Un mandate for gulfwar 2, indeed it was potential French veto that stopped them, but correct me if i'm wrong, but didnt Usa have less than half the votes thereby requiring them to veto FIRST, but the French said that they would counter any veto by Usa.

so, in the first place, less than half the security council (and the rest of the world) didnt support the war anyway...

i kinda repect the French (and Germans) for having the guts for a European to stand up to Usa like that... :)
 

The_Zergling

Junior Member
I also respect the French and Germans for trying to stop Bush from attacking Iraq... I mean, sure Saddam was an evil guy. But the legitimacy of the UN has to be withheld... in this recent American comic strip I saw there was this small dialogue that goes,

Flag : We have to support the President and whatever he says must be done!
Ribbon : Why?
Flag : Because he may have to attack Iraq in blatant disregard of the UN!
Ribbon : Why attack Iraq?
Flag : Because they attack other countries in blatant disregard of the UN!

Just shows you how absolutely moronic Bush's argument was... even if claims of WMD posing an imminent danger to the US were legitimate (Which they weren't) undermining the UN simply wasn't worth it... French-hate was pretty easy to find in many parts of the US, which was pretty stupid if you ask me, many people just couldn't look at and see things from a wider prespective, they were all brainwashed by Bush and his "Darth Vader" type of thinking mode... (If you are not with me, then you are my enemy...)

Hats off to the French and Germans...

But either way this has gone way off topic, and besides...

Shouldn't this be in the Off Topic section? It's been here for quite a while...
 
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