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Andy1974

Junior Member
Registered Member
In what f..ng PLANET is Britain the 2nd most powerful carrier? Is the HMS Q.E. that strong?

I think so. They are a combined carrier and assault ship, custom designed for F-35 and supported by Astute subs, Type 45 destroyers and soon to be Type 26 frigates.

What other countries come close to that?
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
In what f..ng PLANET is Britain the 2nd most powerful carrier? Is the HMS Q.E. that strong?

I think they are talking about QE and Prince Charles. That's two carriers with 35 F35s each. Still a powerful carriers bit 2nd most powerful?

I supposed China's 16 and 17, and 075s is a pale distant third then! Lol

I think so. They are a combined carrier and assault ship, custom designed for F-35 and supported by Astute subs, Type 45 destroyers and soon to be Type 26 frigates.

What other countries come close to that?

See above. And don't forget, U.K. hasn't got a cup compliment of aircraft as yet. So blowing it's own trumpet now maybe a tad premature.
 

Overbom

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think they are talking about QE and Prince Charles. That's two carriers with 35 F35s each. Still a powerful carriers bit 2nd most powerful?

I supposed China's 16 and 17 is
But aren't the Chinese carriers themselves based on an old Soviet design?

On the other hand UK has 2 brand new and modern carriers which also have 5th gen aircraft. To me that sounds like it is a better aircraft carrier force.

However, I think these statements are meaningless. At the modern age it is not carrier vs carrier only. It is a war of (military) systems that each country has.
It is also not tank vs tank, not infantryman vs infantryman, no destroyer vs destroyer etc.

And also China, has its own strategic plans and priorities. For what it wants to accomplish these carriers it has now are good enough.

Anyway, most probably his statement was correct but it is very misleading, as such, it is good PR :D
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
Anyway, most probably his statement was correct but it is very misleading, as such, it is good PR :D

You are absolutely correct. Which is why I posted as "rule Britannia". Because PR and make their populace feel good is what that statement/headline is trying to say.

But in reality, as you said, it is no longer that type of warfare anymore. Anyway, China's own carriers and 075 can give them a run for their money.

And don't forget, "Great" Britain can't even afford a full compliment of F35s.
 

Andy1974

Junior Member
Registered Member
You are absolutely correct. Which is why I posted as "rule Britannia". Because PR and make their populace feel good is what that statement/headline is trying to say.

But in reality, as you said, it is no longer that type of warfare anymore. Anyway, China's own carriers and 075 can give them a run for their money.

And don't forget, "Great" Britain can't even afford a full compliment of F35s.
You sound as if this is some sort of coordinated propaganda by the uk state, in reality it’s just an enthusiasts personal site. The UK can afford plenty of top quality kit, supported by the largest defense budget in Europe.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
You sound as if this is some sort of coordinated propaganda by the uk state, in reality it’s just an enthusiasts personal site. The UK can afford plenty of top quality kit, supported by the largest defense budget in Europe.

Oh. Ok. Whatever you say. So I guess the planes they borrowed from the U.S. is for strategic reasons. If so I got a bridge.. ... no wait, you sold that and all the family silvers long time ago. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

I take it you didn't hear about the increased in National insurance today to pay for all the things the U.K. can afford then.
 

Andy1974

Junior Member
Registered Member
Oh. Ok. Whatever you say. So I guess the planes they borrowed from the U.S. is for strategic reasons. If so I got a bridge.. ... no wait, you sold that and all the family silvers long time ago. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

I take it you didn't hear about the increased in National insurance today to pay for all the things the U.K. can afford then.

I don’t know what your problem is.

I am glad the UK doesn’t have too many F-35s for obvious reasons, we will buy more later if it’s still a viable platform, once the next software milestone is done and sustainability is cheaper, or we won’t.

We also have a 6th Gen fighter program.

The UK is also in the business of selling ships and services, including the QE carrier designs, the Type 26 and the Type 31 as well as patrol boats are all on offer throughout this trip.

The UK has been careful not to upset during this trip. Some with a keen eye (not you) could read something into that.
 

Gloire_bb

Senior Member
Registered Member
In what f..ng PLANET is Britain the 2nd most powerful carrier? Is the HMS Q.E. that strong?
Well... they have the potential to be 2nd most powerful (but Britain doesn't have money to outfit them to such degree).
Right now they most certainly aren't.
On the other hand UK has 2 brand new and modern carriers which also have 5th gen aircraft. To me that sounds like it is a better aircraft carrier force.
They do. However:

1, Their AEW is helicopters only, which are really inferior compared to planes. They had the option to make AEW from V-22, it was considered too expensive and too American. Well, their choice.
2, Known British plans won't allow them to properly outfit both carriers to their maximum capacity. Currently, there are not enough aircraft to truly fill even 1 of them, nor is it planned. Shared squadron structure(RAF/FAA) won't help either.
3, British F-35B right now only carries LGBs for offensive weapons. And its future proper (non-suicidal) ASM/ARM options beyond SPEAR-3 are still big enigma.

For example, CdG CSG will be quite handily stronger than the British one. Chinese ones, probably, too (or rather the only reason Brits are competitive is the underwater domain, which for a large part isn't QE accomplishment).
 
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FireyCross

New Member
Registered Member
Rule Britannia syndrome? Second most powerful carrier force?

Headline from UKdj:

British aircraft carriers HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Queen Elizabeth are both at sea with British F-35 jets onboard, this marks the return of Britain having the second most powerful carrier force on Earth.

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I honestly can't get my head around the wankfest over the QE class ships. The level of delusion is off the scale. In what world are they anything more than glorified versions of the Wasp or Izumo class helicopter carriers? No arrested landing capability, not even a ski-jump let alone catapults. Self defence capability is a a solitary CIWS - there is zero layered defence ability. Amphibious capabilities (originally a big part of the package) pretty much went out of the window.

Even the size is a bit of a joke. At 65,000 tons, it carries a max of 24 F-35Bs, but can just about squeeze in 36 if everything else gets thrown out. Seriously, WTF? The Charles de Gaulle is a third smaller and can deploy more aircraft, has a full CATOBAR setup, *and* nuclear propulsion, *and* has proper layered self-defence systems. I'd love to know what they did with firstly, all the space, and secondly, all the money. It seems it all went on building a big hull, and had nothing left to put in it.

Apparently, the British were obsessed with having "inter-operability" with the American forces, but for all the Brits talking about a "super carrier", the only American forces it can actually inter-operate with are the Wasp class. Says it all really.

In all honesty, if I were the RN, I'd have gone for a single more advance ship based on the Charles de Gaulle and operated a combined Anglo-French carrier group. France originally wanted a two carrier setup but found it unaffordable. The Brits will have the same problem. Together they could have had a genuinely capable presence that was much more flexible, and much more affordable, than either have been able to manage by themselves. The US inter-operability really is just pie in the sky English exceptionalism. The Americans have more real, actual carriers than they can shake a stick at. They really don't give a shit what the Brits are playing around with, as long as they aren't getting in the Americans way or causing them grief.

Utterly delusional.
 

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