Type 09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread


SpicySichuan

Senior Member
Registered Member
What? All the Russian nuclear submarines are built at Sevmash. Ever since Yeltsin's time all their production has been concentrated at the same shipyard. A huge shipyard, for sure, but a single one.
Oops I meant the USSR... cuz I remember when I studied in St. Petersburg (aka Leningrad), a local professor told me that Admiralty Shipyard USED to assemble nuclear subs during Soviet times.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Via mr. unknown at the CDF. Quotes from an interesting paper. It applies to PLAN submarines in general so its not only 093s and such.



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Vol 4, Iss 1 Winter 2020/2021
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The U.S. Navy’s Loss of Command of the Seas to China and How to Regain It
Joe Sestak


Some quotes:

"And China’s constant upgrades in the quieting of diesel and nuclear attack submarines have meant that early warning detection could no longer be done by long-range, passive sonar. It would have to be done by close-in, active sonar instead. The physics of active sonar mean that, in most cases, submarines can only be detected using active sonar after they are already within their weapon-firing range. These threats keep most U.S. forces at a great distance until enough warships (and airlift) have arrived to provide a defensive sanctuary to allow U.S. forces to move forward."

This is why I mentioned in another thread that the gold standard in submarine detection is now through active sonar, like in using VDS, instead of passive towed arrays.

"For instance, submarines at the time were returning from deployments with sonar tapes that revealed (through post-deployment analyses by high-capacity computers) that there had been quiet, modern Chinese submarines close by that had gone undetected. "

So Chinese subs might be more quieter than suggested.

Overall, paper has some interesting bits and pieces, but it all sounds like Star Trek to me. Star Trek tries to make its science sounds legitimate by throwing word babble such as 'photon' and 'quantum', and it is a similar case here with 'quantum computing', 'AI', '5G' and 'cyberwarfare' without making a tangible connection of such to naval warfare.
 

ougoah

Major
Registered Member
I feel these are examples of the intentional fear mongering, budget expanding, military misinformation effort from certain parts of the US MIC and military itself. Get more money, create a fear and China danger mentally with the public, feed Chinese side some misinformation about Chinese "strength" and American "weakness".
 

z117

New Member
feed Chinese side some misinformation about Chinese "strength" and American "weakness".
I'm not a war nerd. But do you think Chinese strategist will read this and say; gee Americans think our boats are more impressive than we do. We can stop development now and take a long weekend!
 

ougoah

Major
Registered Member
I'm not a war nerd. But do you think Chinese strategist will read this and say; gee Americans think our boats are more impressive than we do. We can stop development now and take a long weekend!

Of course not, but that doesn't necessarily mean statements like those aren't made with those intentions in mind.

Remember that all information warfare ammunition fired into the arena serve the purpose of shaping thoughts. Whether those penetrate into influence at some CCP level is honestly something we don't need to wonder. How the Chinese decision makers respond to examples of "Americans are saying they are weak and China is strong" isn't the only aim here.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
I'm not a war nerd. But do you think Chinese strategist will read this and say; gee Americans think our boats are more impressive than we do. We can stop development now and take a long weekend!

How, when you are confessing to their detection using computational analysis.

This happens when the sub has become as quiet as the ambient noise, so you will need computers to pick the submarine's noise from the background noise.

PLAN does not need the Americans to tell how quiet or noisy their subs are. Use your own sensors, or computational models.
 

subotai1

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm not a war nerd. But do you think Chinese strategist will read this and say; gee Americans think our boats are more impressive than we do. We can stop development now and take a long weekend!
Everything you see fielded today started years ago. A submarine that started development 10+ years ago vs detection equipment that started development 3+ years ago.
 

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