Type 09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread


Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
According to Chinese media, US carriers going through SCS is just for shows but underneath the water there were alot of confrontation between PLAN submarines and USN submarine around the water Southwest of Taiwan, near Dongsha island. It's the most strategic spot because it watching over the entrance into SCS from bashi channel between Taiwan and Philippines. Any US forces coming in will transit that area. For the past years and currently both side subs are hunting each other underneath.

Submarines showdown will be the deciding factor between PLAN and USN in SCS

093b is alot more important than 054a, 056. Overbuilding those surface ships is kind of pointless especially US cranking out alot of AshM Lasrm.

I don't think so or at least the PLAN doesn't think so. PLAN is disadvantaged going against USN sub to sub with their noisier subs, hence the best counter to that would be ASW surface vessels. This is leveraging PLAN's strength in surface ship technology and production. Remember that a sub, no matter how quiet, has no counter against active sonar. This is why the VDS is so important.

Y-8's won't be going to specific spots at a specific time unless the USN subs themselves might have been detected and the Y-8s might be performing simulated attacks against the subs.

Back from 2000 to 2012, there was a massive growth spurt in the number of PLAN submarines but since 2012, that shift to ASW vessels and there should be a strong reason behind it.
 

ougoah

Major
Registered Member
Isn't 093b has more powerful sonar that can detect opponents's subs?

It does seems to carry more sonars . The additional side sonar and the towed array from the small hump

I really doubt that. The modern 039A variants are built later than 093 and both should receive the best China had available in that department during the 2010 to 2020 period. They can be removed and upgraded. Upgrading internals is more worthwhile since there are only so many submarines. It's not like having to upgrade 100+ J-11B with AESA units.

The 093 may have more and more powerful sensors owing to its propulsion, but that doesn't make 039A much less effective. They also clearly have comms and outside guidance if they can launch anti-ship missiles.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Isn't 093b has more powerful sonar that can detect opponents's subs?

It does seems to carry more sonars . The additional side sonar and the towed array from the small hump

Original Type 093 have flank sonars that is the flat conformal type. Both appear as square patches in the hull. Even Han class has flank sonars refitted. The location are indicated by white bars in the hull, which is a warning to the tugs not to tug in that part of the sub.

Sinodefence.com_.png

download (17).jpeg


The newer 093A has these linear flank arrays instead as you can see compared to the previous model.


Han class. Note the flank array markers in white.



Type-091_Han_sinodefence.jpg



039B has this long linear array at the bottom of the sub.


download (18).jpeg

I am not sure if this is a TAS or a long linear flank array.


There is also a warning marker to indicate a flank sonar in this location.

2019-04-23T132956Z_192885217_RC1669997160_RTRMADP_3_CHINA-MILITARY-ANNIVERSARY.JPG.jpg


There is a wake sensor on the nose too.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't think so or at least the PLAN doesn't think so. PLAN is disadvantaged going against USN sub to sub with their noisier subs, hence the best counter to that would be ASW surface vessels. This is leveraging PLAN's strength in surface ship technology and production. Remember that a sub, no matter how quiet, has no counter against active sonar. This is why the VDS is so important.

Y-8's won't be going to specific spots at a specific time unless the USN subs themselves might have been detected and the Y-8s might be performing simulated attacks against the subs.

Back from 2000 to 2012, there was a massive growth spurt in the number of PLAN submarines but since 2012, that shift to ASW vessels and there should be a strong reason behind it.
Surface vessels are easier targets to be killed by airstrikes.

How if 093b work in tandem with 039s?
093b provides the powerful sonar ability and 039 would be passive listeners for reflection.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Surface vessels are easier targets to be killed by airstrikes.

How if 093b work in tandem with 039s?
093b provides the powerful sonar ability and 039 would be passive listeners for reflection.


Surface vessels are far easier to digital network across satellite and with aircraft, UAVs, USVs and UUVs, to share information.


309c2370489b21417a0338 (2).jpgunnamed (17).jpg

The biggest improvements on the last batch of Type 056A are focused on new SATCOMs.


PLAN submarines themselves will be hunted down by surface vessels and patrol aircraft unless both are also countered by surface vessels and aircraft.
 

dankris

Junior Member
Registered Member
Another
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about Type 093 and 094. It's in traditional mandarin but GT translation result is plenty readable.

The main website is
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. It's an old website with a weird layout (you click at icon with link embedded in it), but it's still being updated and the info is generally of high to very high quality. Definitely recommended to check it out.
 
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SpicySichuan

Senior Member
Registered Member
Isn't 093b has more powerful sonar that can detect opponents's subs?

It does seems to carry more sonars . The additional side sonar and the towed array from the small hump
The 093 class in general is already an outdated design from the 1990s. The technology involved were only comparable to U.S. and Soviet SSNs of the late 1970s (think early Los Angeles Class or early Akula class, but still noisier). As much as the PLAN's SSN/SSBN fleet is a force to be reckoned with, it is still far behind the USN and Russia in both quality and quantity. You have to wait until the mass production of 095/096 (especially if these subs install the rim-driven pump jets developed by Adm. Ma) in order for the PLAN to catch up with Russia and the USN in nuclear submarines capabilities. This will probably not happen until the mid. 2030s (assuming PLAN's budget enjoys steady increase). Finally, China SSN/SSBNs can only be assembled in one shipyard: the Huludao Bohai Shipyard. Comparably, both Russia and U.S. have multiple shipyards capable of assembling nuclear-powered subs.

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Yet, the 039B/C conventional subs most likely carry China's most updated sensors, sonars, and computer systems for now. They are also earlier to mass produce in Wuhan, Shanghai, and other shipyard throughout China. Maybe 039s are small enough that they could even be assembled in the Chuandong Shipyard in Chongqing should the CMC decide to. The Chuanqong Shipyand was built during the Third Front Movement to assemble the 033 Romeo class subs. In general, the 039s are faster and cheaper to produce, while still carrying China's most advanced underwater armament (except nukes) for now.
 

gelgoog

Captain
Registered Member
...
Comparably, both Russia and U.S. have multiple shipyards capable of assembling nuclear-powered subs.
...

What? All the Russian nuclear submarines are built at Sevmash. Ever since Yeltsin's time all their production has been concentrated at the same shipyard. A huge shipyard, for sure, but a single one.
 

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