Type 075 LHD discussion


Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
And yes ASW LHD will strengthen PLAN submarine warfare for the same reason that Japan built 4 of them and filled them with ASW helicopter. If you know anything Japan function in cold war era is to guard the sea of Okhotsk from Russian submarine and prevent them from entering pacific

 

Intrepid

Captain
An aircraft carrier battle group is moving fast, so this is not an easy target for a submarine. As long as it moves fast, it does not need an LHD for submarine defense.

Once the aircraft carrier battle group has reached a position that will hold it for a longer period of time, an LHD would be very useful for far-reaching anti-submarine protection.
 

Bltizo

Lieutenant General
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I just looked up the Wasp and America classes and they both have a top speed of around 20 knots. So the article claiming that the 075 will give the PLAN similar capabilities to the USN's amphibious ships cannot be countered by claiming the 075 can't move at 30 knots. The Izumo and Hyūga are unusual in this regard, which I would put down to the Japanese flagrantly violating the spirit of the law forbidding them from fielding aircraft carriers. In any case, China certainly has the means to juice the performance of the 075 by installing four gas turbines at 30+ MW apiece (I believe a GT25000 variant has reached 33MW and is aiming for 40 using intercooling and recuperation).
For the record I never had any problem with the suggestion that 075 would have a similar multirole nature to the Wasp class, in fact I directly stated so in a previous post.

What I had a problem with was the article's exaggeration of the 075's potential ASW role for the PLAN.
 

FriedRiceNSpice

Senior Member
Won't destroyers and other surface vessels generally cruise at speeds of significantly under 20kts as well? I thought surface ships could only do bursts at 30+ knots, and must consume a much greater volume of fuel to do so?
 

Bltizo

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That is assuming that the submarine is running at 30+ knots which rarely done in hunting mode Submarine does not use their max speed in hunting mode since they exacerbate the noise due to hull hydrodynamic and screw cavitation. They will be easily detected. Most submarine rarely goes more than 17knots in hunting mode. Max speed only used for transit!
So your argument is big BS!

Another thing running on diesel engine does not foreclose that the ship cannot make 30 knots
Some of the Russian sub can go as fast as 45 knots So the argument that LHD with CODAG can run run 30 knot! is a moot point

Max speed will only be used during transit How do submarine evade their pursuer by staying stand still and doing nothing until the pursuer left or in diesel sub they use the electric motor fed by battery doing slow creep
Yes 075 obviously will not be actively doing ASW missions at 30+ knots even if it was capable of it.

However, you need to be able to do 30+ knots if you want to keep up with the rest of your fleet which will do 30 knots while transiting. I.e. 30+ knots is entirely necessary if you require your LHD or LHA to fulfill a fleet ASW capability for your fleet.

075 absolutely can do ASW; however it does not offer the ASW capabilities that the article makes it sound like it will provide.
 

Intrepid

Captain
Won't destroyers and other surface vessels generally cruise at speeds of significantly under 20kts as well? I thought surface ships could only do bursts at 30+ knots, and must consume a much greater volume of fuel to do so?
Consumption at 30 kn is four times as high as 15 kn. In the past, there have been multiple aircraft carrier groups that have driven several thousand NMs continuously at 30+.
 

Bltizo

Lieutenant General
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Won't destroyers and other surface vessels generally cruise at speeds of significantly under 20kts as well? I thought surface ships could only do bursts at 30+ knots, and must consume a much greater volume of fuel to do so?
Ships with gas turbines tend to run more efficiently at 30+ knots, and carriers tend to conduct operations at about 30 knots with reserve speeds being even higher.

In relation to ships like 075 (other LHDs, LPDs etc) they only tend to be able to do 20+ish knots as their top speed. The Hyuga and Izumo classes are the exception.
 

Intrepid

Captain
An anti-submarine warfare carrier (ASW carrier) (US
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CVS) is a type of small
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whose primary role is as the nucleus of an
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. This type of ship came into existence during the
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as a development of the
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used in the ASW role in the North Atlantic during
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.
Hunter killer groups not moving fast when they search for submarines. Searching is not very effective on high speeds.
 

Gloire_bb

Junior Member
Registered Member
PLAN similar capabilities to the USN's amphibious ships cannot be countered by claiming the 075 can't move at 30 knots.
It's obvious. Both are amphibs before anything else.

If you know anything Japan function in cold war era is to guard the sea of Okhotsk from Russian submarine and prevent them from entering pacific
If you know anything, please describe how you intend to perform ASW operations within sea of Okhotsk. Say, in 1980s.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
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Guys, could You please continue this back-and-forth discussion on LHD & ASW in the ASW thread? We are already so far off the regular Type 075 discussion.

Thanks
 

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