Type 056 Class Opv/corvette


zxy_bc

New Member
Registered Member
Maybe CCG wants to retire the older ships transfered from PLAN. I can imagine how painful it could be to operate those vintage ships.


Come on. With PLAN expanding so fast, that shouldn't be the decisive factor here.
That's also definitely a factor. CCG now under PAP control has a lot more say-so in their equipment acquisition than before.
 

AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
Is CCG really overwhelmed? Right now no, but CCG is definitely taking into account of USCG's possible intervention in the West Pacific. (And with the Philippine's next election going on, the possibility of another US-aligned Philippine regime is not to be taken lightly) US is also giving away some of its old CG ships to countries that have maritime territorial disputes with China. JCG is ramping up its construction as well. CCG also needs more militarized ships since it's now under PAP administration. (the "gendarmerie" operational nature of PAP) Two directions mainly concerned the CCG: the East China Sea and the South China Sea. Both areas are plagued with known regional strategic competitors.

That's not an issue.

If you look at the actual numbers, you will see that the coastguards in the region plus the US Coastguard are not an issue
That includes future construction
 

zxy_bc

New Member
Registered Member
Yes, they obviously got a lot money. I don't think they're satisfied with the PLAN vintage ships any more.

That's not an issue.

If you look at the actual numbers, you will see that the coastguards in the region plus the US Coastguard are not an issue
That includes future construction
It doesn't really matter that you and I sitting here saying it's not an issue. What I am saying is that CCG thinks it's an issue.
 

AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
It doesn't really matter that you and I sitting here saying it's not an issue. What I am saying is that CCG thinks it's an issue.

If the PLAN thinks it needs to keep those ships, the CCG can't do anything about it

If anything, it is the PLAN which decides what ships the CCG should get
 

zxy_bc

New Member
Registered Member
If the PLAN thinks it needs to keep those ships, the CCG can't do anything about it

If anything, it is the PLAN which decides what ships the CCG should get
Doesn't work that way anymore. It has to be a mutually-agreed deal. PLAN cannot just throw unwanted equipments to PAP administrated branch. (Pre-PAP CCG is another story, since that CCG has a very confusing and convoluted command structure and equipment purchase channels, making CCG rather to accept PLAN's vintage ships on the batch than requesting for new build-ups) CCG now under PAP has to also want these 056 in order for PLAN to give them away.
 

lcloo

Senior Member
If the PLAN thinks it needs to keep those ships, the CCG can't do anything about it

If anything, it is the PLAN which decides what ships the CCG should get
I believe a decision of such a scale should be that of CMC, instead of PLAN or CCG. Both PLAN and CCG are subordinate to CMC - Central Military Commission. instead of looking through Chinese perspective instead of the West/US military command structure and their decision making empowerment, in China party decision is paramount.

Also, looking back to the initial surge more than a decade ago in CCG's expansion caused by the Diaoyudai dispute, many ships designed for non-patrol roles were transferred from other civilian services like China MSA, Fishery Dept etc. Many of these old ships have seen plenty of mileage before the transfer. These are not idea CCG patrol ships.

The transfer of type 056 to CCG would be more suitable for patrol duties than former large tug or former fishery dept ships now sail under CCG banner.
 

MwRYum

Major
If you give it a thought, 056 is pretty much designed for such role in mind, when without its ASM and CIWS loadout, it's exactly a standard coastguard cutter.

Also, consider that the 056 is there to replace the 037 class submarine chaser to begin with, the general purpose / baseline iteration of the Flight I 056 is indeed insufficient in the ASW role; later variants that has better ASW gear are what'd be said "fitting" for the PLAN.
 

AndrewS

Colonel
Registered Member
Doesn't work that way anymore. It has to be a mutually-agreed deal. PLAN cannot just throw unwanted equipments to PAP administrated branch. (Pre-PAP CCG is another story, since that CCG has a very confusing and convoluted command structure and equipment purchase channels, making CCG rather to accept PLAN's vintage ships on the batch than requesting for new build-ups) CCG now under PAP has to also want these 056 in order for PLAN to give them away.

That's not what I said

I said that if the PLAN deems there is a pressing military need to keep the Type-056s for military use, the CCG does not influence/power to insist on their transfer. The CCG already dominates at the paramilitary level, but the PLAN would still struggle against the US Navy

And in what navies do you know where the Regular Navy takes a backseat to the Coast Guard?

So I stand by my assertion that any ship transfers to the CCG from the PLAN - are primarily driven by PLAN requirements

Yes, there does have to mutual agreement between the PLAN and CCG, but the PLAN are firmly in the driving seat
 
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Lethe

Senior Member
If it is true that all of the 056s are going to be transferred to the coast guard, there are a few different ways of evaluating this news and most of these angles have been covered by other posters. Obviously, how we evaluate this news in terms of PLAN strength, doctrine, etc. depends upon what else is coming down the pipe, i.e. more 056A, an 056B, a new 057 light frigate, or the new 054As. At first glance, it does seem rather wasteful and lacking in foresight to produce a significant number of modern, reasonably capable vessels, only to discard them (from a PLAN perspective) with less than a decade of service. But if we ask ourselves what kind of circumstances could reasonably produce a series of events like this one, we would probably conclude that it most likely to occur in a highly dynamic environment, i.e. an environment experiencing significant change. Change in budget, in the broader inventory, in technology, in strategy and doctrine, in institutional relationships. And we can see that this dynamism readily applies to PLAN today, and in largely a positive sense, i.e. the dynamism is in the direction of growth. That is to say, whatever the specifics turn out to be in this transfer of 056s from PLAN to CCG and their hypothetical replacements in the PLAN inventory, in a broader sense we can see these events as an artefact of PLAN's underlying dynamism, akin to an adolescent growth phase.

Come on. With PLAN expanding so fast, that shouldn't be the decisive factor here.

I disagree. Personnel are the foundation of the Navy as with any other institution. In the past PLAN could probably afford to be rather lax in terms of allocating people in ways that maximise efficiency, because wages were cheap compared to the capital required for large warships with high-technology systems. That is to say, PLAN's capabilities were constrained by lack of capital and technology, not by personnel. But just as the capital costs of large warships with high-technology systems are becoming less challenging for PLAN, the cost of personnel is becoming more challenging as wages rise. We can expect PLAN to be taking an ever-closer look at the "bang for buck" that it is getting from its people, and over time this will almost certainly drive PLAN to larger, more capable multirole platforms. I don't want to overstate this trend: PLAN is decades away from confronting the kinds of labour costs that shape inventory trends in e.g. European navies, but the trend is there and we can expect it to exert some influence on the inventory going forward. Ultimately, that is to say that I don't find it implausible that PLAN may have decided to swap 20 056s for 20 054As. I'm not saying that is actually what is happening, but it does seem superficially plausible.
 
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