Type 055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread


Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Too bad the second 101 doesn't have the same name as the first 101. But it seems the name 'Anshan' might be headed for another Type 055.
 

taxiya

Colonel
Registered Member
Too bad the second 101 doesn't have the same name as the first 101. But it seems the name 'Anshan' might be headed for another Type 055.
Why "too bad"? ;) The naming for the very first ship of a type especially a mile-stone like type 055 certainly carries huge political and traditional significance. I have no favor of regionalism or pride, but there is simply no city or place that can compete in political significance with cities or places like Nangchang, Jinggangshan, Yanan etc. After 101 though, it will be totally procedural as new ship got name vacated by decommissioned old ship.
 

gelgoog

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think the picture is awesome. It is a massive upgrade, a two, no, three generation leap in technology for ship no. 101.
 

Richard Santos

Junior Member
Registered Member
Too bad the second 101 doesn't have the same name as the first 101. But it seems the name 'Anshan' might be headed for another Type 055.
actually, if history in China ever becomes more objective and less hagiographic of the current ruling party, then the first Anshan would be seen as a huge ambarassment. That Anshan was an rather inadaquate attempt by the Soviets to produce a early 1930 standard destroyer during the late 1930s. it was hard used and worn out by end of WWII. The Soviets then hoodwinked the new government in China into paying 15 metric tons of gold for the essentially obsolete, worn out destroyer that wasn’t very good when new, and was totally unmodernized even by pervailing standard of end of WWII. It had no sonar, crude radar, no radar fire control, no remote power control For any weapons, inadequate AA, At very in efficient engines.

The value of 15 metric tons of gold at the time was about 20 million US dollars. At the time the latest Fleet destroyer at the end of WWII cost between 6 -10 million USD to build.
 
Last edited:

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
actually, if history in China ever becomes more objective and less hagiographic of the current ruling party, then the first Anshan would be seen as a huge ambarassment. That Anshan was an rather inadaquate attempt by the Soviets to produce a early 1930 standard destroyer during the late 1930s. it was hard used and worn out by end of WWII. The Soviets then hoodwinked the new government in China into paying 15 metric tons of gold for the essentially obsolete, worn out destroyer that wasn’t very good when new, and was totally unmodernized even by pervailing standard of end of WWII. It had no sonar, crude radar, no radar fire control, no remote power control For any weapons, inadequate AA, At very in efficient engines.

The value of 15 metric tons of gold at the time was about 20 million US dollars. At the time the latest Fleet destroyer at the end of WWII cost between 6 -10 million USD to build.

Um no.. Gnevny class destroyers was a class of 29 destroyers. While it was hardly perfect and had many flaws, you don't build a class of 29 destroyers and call it a failure. These ships could steam up to 38 knots, although due to QC issues, some of these ships don't reach the 38 knots. 38 knots is faster than you see with any destroyer around. These ships goes back to an Italian destroyer heritage, and the Italians love fast ships.

With regards to sensors, much of WW2 destroyers don't have anything like advanced sensors. But for a WW2 destroyer, the Gnevny class can be considered heavily armed. Ballistically, the main gun punches harder than any other gun of its type in WW2. As for AA armament, ships tend to add guns during their service aside from the standard armament given which was inadequete at the start, still the class was able to fend itself against German air attacks. I won't call WW2 levels of construction, or even by the late thirties to be high in QC, much of the record of ships like these --- the Gnevny class should be considered average, not the best, not the worst --- comes from the people who manned and maintained the ships rather than the excellence of design.

Some of these destroyers are considered war heroes by the Soviet Union, most notably the Gremyaschy which escorted and fought back German attacks on Lend Lease convoys to the Soviet Union. Here is her war record, and she was also put on a stamp. You can that much of the class served in WW2 protecting convoys in assistance to the Allies. This ship even earned a stamp, and today, a modern ship is named after her.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The most modern ship in the Russian Navy so happens to be her namesake. The Russian Navy doesn't pick its names lightly.

Untitled-1-1 (1).jpg


15 tons of gold just happen to buy four destroyers. Admittedly, the SU did come off like a thief with four obsolete destroyers for 15 tons of gold but China did help secure technical cooperation with the Soviet Union that also brought a lot of other things to China which would later be the H-6 bomber for example, or the blueprints of a Soviet destroyer that would later be the foundation of the Type 051 class for the PLAN.

The ship that was to be the Anshan, the Rekordny, was built in the Russian Far East. However much of the conflict was on the other side of the Soviet Union, so the Pacific Fleet didn't see any action. I won't consider the ship hard used, more like hardly used.

Much of these class continue to see service until the late fifties --- so during the time the SU sold these ships to China, the class was still active with the Soviet Union. You are still talking about a healthy span of over twenty years of service. The Chinese ships were still in service in the seventies, right up to the eighties, so that's a long record of service. By then the ships were heavily modified with radar, missiles and etc,. So overall, the class served from the late thirties for the first ship to hoist its flag up right up to the late eighties when the last ship hoisted its flag down. That's still a remarkable record of service.

5w2xegiicmz41.jpg


Anshan and Gremyaschy as recreated in a wargame. As the visual representations are based on researched archival and historical records as well as museum ships, at the time the Rekordny was handed over to the PLA, the ship to be the Anshan has more radar fittings than what the earlier state of the class was.


ba5bb520ae79440728bdc219c55c297e.jpg

gremyashchy_tech_en_1920x.jpg

Of the four original destroyers of the PLAN, Anshan, Fushun, Changchun and Taiyuan, Changchun and Taiyuan has already returned as destroyers, a 052C and a 052D respectively. It would be neat to see Anshan and Fushun return as destroyer names.
 
Last edited:

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Why "too bad"? ;) The naming for the very first ship of a type especially a mile-stone like type 055 certainly carries huge political and traditional significance. I have no favor of regionalism or pride, but there is simply no city or place that can compete in political significance with cities or places like Nangchang, Jinggangshan, Yanan etc. After 101 though, it will be totally procedural as new ship got name vacated by decommissioned old ship.
Why? The city of Anshan was a major hub of steel production to the People's Republic and it remains today. So it has a significant place in the nation's rise to power. It would have a much more historical significance, than say, naming a destroyer the Shenzhen.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

You can bet a ton of Azur Lane memes flooding Weibo when a 055 is officially named Anshan. See the '101' in her hairpin.

884px-An_Shan.jpg
 
Last edited:

tupolevtu144

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why? The city of Anshan was a major hub of steel production to the People's Republic and it remains today. So it has a significant place in the nation's rise to power. It would have a much more historical significance, than say, naming a destroyer the Shenzhen.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

You can bet a ton of Azur Lane memes flooding Weibo when a 055 is officially named Anshan. See the '101' in her hairpin.

View attachment 64183
Off-topic here but is Azur Lane that popular??? I see it in every warship-related threads whichever forum I go to.
 

Richard Santos

Junior Member
Registered Member
Um no.. Gnevny class destroyers was a class of 29 destroyers. While it was hardly perfect and had many flaws, you don't build a class of 29 destroyers and call it a failure. These ships could steam up to 38 knots, although due to QC issues, some of these ships don't reach the 38 knots. 38 knots is faster than you see with any destroyer around. These ships goes back to an Italian destroyer heritage, and the Italians love fast ships.

With regards to sensors, much of WW2 destroyers don't have anything like advanced sensors. But for a WW2 destroyer, the Gnevny class can be considered heavily armed. Ballistically, the main gun punches harder than any other gun of its type in WW2. As for AA armament, ships tend to add guns during their service aside from the standard armament given which was inadequete at the start, still the class was able to fend itself against German air attacks. I won't call WW2 levels of construction, or even by the late thirties to be high in QC, much of the record of ships like these --- the Gnevny class should be considered average, not the best, not the worst --- comes from the people who manned and maintained the ships rather than the excellence of design.

Some of these destroyers are considered war heroes by the Soviet Union, most notably the Gremyaschy which escorted and fought back German attacks on Lend Lease convoys to the Soviet Union. Here is her war record, and she was also put on a stamp. You can that much of the class served in WW2 protecting convoys in assistance to the Allies. This ship even earned a stamp, and today, a modern ship is named after

uh, no. when the Gnevny class was built, the Soviet Union just emerged from a period when all naval expertise accummulated during czarist period had been lost during the russian revolution and the subsequent 5 year civil war, and the Newly built Soviet Industry has no experience whatsoever in Modern warship Design or construction. The Soviet Union tackled this by soliciting some foreign assistance, but as soon as barely passable designs have been obtained, tweak them to emphasize attributes thought to reflect what were called “proletariat military tactics” and then build them in absurdly large numbers in the belief that numerical superiority can overcome quality deficiency.

it was in this circumstances the Gnevney class were conceived, The gnevny had single purpose Anti-ship main gun battery at a time when other people are moving towards, or have already completed the move to, dual purpose Anti-air and anti-surface gun’s. As a result It had negligible ability to provide air defence to anyone but itself When leading power were already already integrating destroyers into the AA screens of fleets. It had open gun mounts that were suspectible to weather And splinters Even though it was intended to operate in some of the most punishing weather In the world. At that time even navies operating in much more temperate weather has seen the benefit of giving sea, weather and splinter protection to guns by installing them in power operated enclose turrets. It had manually worked guns when other people all had power operated train and elevation, and many have adopted remote power control allowing all guns to be positively controlled form a central,fire control location. Despite above average size it had 6 torpedo tubes whe other navies typically provided 8-10, up to 15. It tried to offset this by providing torpedo reloads, but reloading takes a hour and certainly almost impossible to do once the battle is,joined. Japanese destroyers can reload their torpedos in 20 minutes, and had 8-9 tubes That can be fired simultaneously. American destroyers has 10-12 tubes that can be fired simultaneously. If the Gnevney wasn’t one of the worst destroyer designs of the late 1930s it was close to it.

build a lot of extremely mediocre, even down right poor design was a doctrinal approach Of the Soviet naval arms buildup under stalin during the late 1930s. Another singularly glaring example is the attempt to build a class of 15 Sovietsky Suyoz class battleships In 1938. The sovietski class were extremely large (almost Yamato/Montana sized), extremely inefficient (need almost 30-50% more power to go at roughly the same speed as the Yamato‘Montana), very lightly armed (on 60,000 tons it carried the same main armament as on 35,000 Tom foreign battleships) for its size despite being no Better protected than Yamato/Montana, and extremely wasteful (the armor belt required 6 different thicknesses of steel plates). No one else even built 15 battleship during all of WWII let along a single class of 15 ships. Yet despite the class were to consist of an unparalleled 15nships. it was indubitably one of the worst battleship designs of the era.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Off-topic here but is Azur Lane that popular??? I see it in every warship-related threads whichever forum I go to.
I'm not into it, but its obvious Azur Lane is insanely popular, and it seems to be everywhere. There's even an anime series of it, you can find it streaming in Hulu.

I found that the four Anshan sisters, Anshan, Fushun, Changchun and Taiyuan are represented and anime-morphized in the game, and Taiyuan gets a modern version when the real life modern destroyer visited Japan in 2019 for JSMDF anniversary. The pennant numbers of the ships appear as hairpins if you will notice: "104" for the original and "131" for the modern one.

Tai_Yuan1.png__tai_yuan_azur_lane_drawn_by_shenbei_xiaoqiu__sample-f0137de4cad8bfbf77b6bbe4e0a9413f.jpg
 

Top