Type 055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread


feilinreg

New Member
Registered Member
Huangpu is questionable. The 054A are built in an indoor shed and that's not going to fit a 055. The ship has to be moved with a mobile dock to the water and that's not going to fit a 055 either. Its far more certain they would be employed to build new batch of 054A+ (AG?) and 054B.

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Guangchan maybe but you may have to make a sizable investment in the tooling and not just training the personnel. The 055 requires a special press to roll steel sheets for the special geometry of the hull. The machine was specifically built for making the 055 but can be adapted to building other ships. We don't know if Guangchan has this machine along with others. It isn't just the dock, but you need the factories to build the modules. Then finally you need the technicians that can fit the equipment. If you want other shipyards to build 055, the day to start training these personnel and incorporating all these machines should have been yesterday. Otherwise you are going to need some lead time in preparing the machines and tools, and training the personnel. After that, you have to produce one or two ships, and subject that to quality inspection, which can be used to adjust the building process. The fact that Guangchan has built the 901 ship gives some confidence of the quality the shipyard can produce but it would be better a step ahead if they have previously built a destroyer.

Circled in second image is the new facility of Huangpu for frigate, and possible for destroyers.

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lcloo

Junior Member
Huangpu is questionable. The 054A are built in an indoor shed and that's not going to fit a 055. The ship has to be moved with a mobile dock to the water and that's not going to fit a 055 either. Its far more certain they would be employed to build new batch of 054A+ (AG?) and 054B.
Huangpu shipyard has relocated a large part of its facilities to Lonxue island (the Dragon's cave) just next to Guangchuan shipyard. It has the capability to build large ships just as Guangchuan do on this island.

While at the Huangpu's old shipyard at Wenchong where type 054As were built in years past, new batch of 054A+? are slotted to be build in near future as per news from CJDBY, may be even future 054B/057 too.
 
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Tam

Major
Registered Member
Circled in second image is the new facility of Huangpu for frigate, and possible for destroyers.
The second one is clearly building bulk freighters. There are many many shipyards that are building commercial ships, these can more than fit destroyers, sometimes two in a dock. But you also need to train up the skill sets. For example, not every shipyard in China can build an LNG carrier, its a highly demanding skill set reserved to to the elite of shipyards.

Docks for any commercial ship is big enough, since commercial ships are bigger, a lot bigger than warships. Even a Type 901 would be dwarfed by relatively common containerships, tankers and bulk freighters, some of whom are 400 meters long. That shipyard Huangpu uses for commercial building can even be used to potentially build a carrier. It would be good to see what other types of ships they are making that can be used to access the technical level. For example, there is a CSSC shipyard that has done FPSO. Like LNG carriers, FPSO can e regarded as a crowning achievement in shipbuilding.

Dock that HDZ uses in Shanghai for example, is big enough to fit two 071 and a 054A at the same time, and right now, it can be used to the Thai 071, the Pakiston 054A/P and the third 075 at the same time. If they are not producing these ships, its possible they can build at least two, maybe four 055 there. HDZ also has a new shipyard in Changxin to build containerships and LNG ships. That's more than enough to build 055s and even carriers if you want to.

But the bottleneck will come from the skillsets used to make high quality ships. How many can you train? How many do you have? How good are they? You also need the technicians to fit the ships. You are going to need more. Army of skilled shipbuilders, engineers and technicians, all that you need, start training and getting valuable experience. That is your most valuable resource.

There are also other bottlenecks ranging from the production of radars, and especially of the gas turbines. How many gas turbines can be produced in a year? How are you going to allocate these?
 

feilinreg

New Member
Registered Member
The second one is clearly building bulk freighters.
You are wrong here, look at these pictures, it indoor ship cradle, which have capacity to produce large ships. I think it is prepared for 054Bs, but also possible for 052 series.

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As for the technique problems, I agree with you, but all in all, it is just money problem. If navy get more funding to produce these ships, they must be able to do it.
Jiangnan shipyard takes several year to upgrade to produce carriers, Guangchuan and Huangpu will take less time to prepare for destroyers. I even think they already finished this work, they just need a certificate to start.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
You are wrong here, look at these pictures, it indoor ship cradle, which have capacity to produce large ships. I think it is prepared for 054Bs, but also possible for 052 series.

View attachment 62472
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As for the technique problems, I agree with you, but all in all, it is just money problem. If navy get more funding to produce these ships, they must be able to do it.
Jiangnan shipyard takes several year to upgrade to produce carriers, Guangchuan and Huangpu will take less time to prepare for destroyers. I even think they already finished this work, they just need a certificate to start.

It is meant to weld sections of large ships --- bulk freighters, container ships --- you have any idea how these large ship scale in comparison to a 054B? These ships displace several times more, anywhere from 100,000 to 400,000 DWT. A 054B would be considered a tiny ship. There is no way a 054B would be considered a large ship. These facilities are meant to produce huge commercial ships. Check out the massive drydock next to the sheds. The pieces that are made in these sheds are moved to the drydock for final assembly. Do you remember how they were building 003? The smaller pieces were being assembled into larger modules first, before they were moved to the drydock. In other words, this facility was meant to produce ships the other facility can't.

Sure these facilities can produce the warships and they have the space for it --- the drydock there can build a carrier, maybe two 075 size ships side bye side, but let me remind you that is not their original purpose, much like HDZ's new facilities at Changxin were meant to produce high end commercial ships.

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These shipyards are primarily born for industry and profit. Warship construction is only a collateral side business.

At this stage, the small shipyards that have produced 056 successfully are better geared for making 054A+ and 054B. Guangzhou Huangpu's old shed for example, can produce two 054X sized frigates side by side. One of the older HDZ's shipyards, where a 054AP is currently being built, that can produce two 054X sized frigates size by side, and its bigger dock can produce one 054X, possibly two, on the side even if two 075 ships are being built there. If this drydock isn't producing 075, you can load four frigates or destroyers there. There are also two shipyards around the Liaoning peninsula that have produced 056 and can produce frigate.

JIangnan's and Dalian's facilities have not changed, they can produce the same output as they have recently. If Dalian is going to produce another carrier, it would be on the dock used for Liaoning and Shandong, which isn't used for destroyers anyway.

Money isn't the problem. Training is. Restructuring the building line. That takes a little time. What takes even more time is your army of technicians needed to fit the ships. The fitting of the ships take longer than it takes to construct them. Money isn't enough, you also need time to train an army of technicians.
 

feilinreg

New Member
Registered Member
It is meant to weld sections of large ships --- bulk freighters, container ships --- you have any idea how these large ship scale in comparison to a 054B? These ships displace several times more, anywhere from 100,000 to 400,000 DWT. A 054B would be considered a tiny ship. There is no way a 054B would be considered a large ship. These facilities are meant to produce huge commercial ships. Check out the massive drydock next to the sheds. The pieces that are made in these sheds are moved to the drydock for final assembly. Do you remember how they were building 003? The smaller pieces were being assembled into larger modules first, before they were moved to the drydock. In other words, this facility was meant to produce ships the other facility can't.

Sure these facilities can produce the warships and they have the space for it --- the drydock there can build a carrier, maybe two 075 size ships side bye side, but let me remind you that is not their original purpose, much like HDZ's new facilities at Changxin were meant to produce high end commercial ships.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

These shipyards are primarily born for industry and profit. Warship construction is only a collateral side business.

At this stage, the small shipyards that have produced 056 successfully are better geared for making 054A+ and 054B. Guangzhou Huangpu's old shed for example, can produce two 054X sized frigates side by side. One of the older HDZ's shipyards, where a 054AP is currently being built, that can produce two 054X sized frigates size by side, and its bigger dock can produce one 054X, possibly two, on the side even if two 075 ships are being built there. If this drydock isn't producing 075, you can load four frigates or destroyers there. There are also two shipyards around the Liaoning peninsula that have produced 056 and can produce frigate.

JIangnan's and Dalian's facilities have not changed, they can produce the same output as they have recently. If Dalian is going to produce another carrier, it would be on the dock used for Liaoning and Shandong, which isn't used for destroyers anyway.

Money isn't the problem. Training is. Restructuring the building line. That takes a little time. What takes even more time is your army of technicians needed to fit the ships. The fitting of the ships take longer than it takes to construct them. Money isn't enough, you also need time to train an army of technicians.
You need read some chinese news, Huangpu shipyard introduced it, it has a width of 45m and height 50m, and in the picture, they are building a 2700 teu container ship, I think this ship can be defined as a "large ship", but it's ok if you don't agree.
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And this facility is samiliar with the old shipyard, if not for warships, what kind of ships need this high-tech and expensive indoor ship cradle?

And you said the time, if they start now, how long time they need. I agree. But possibly they already started it many years ago. As far as my understanding, PLA has a huge plan for everything, they start the training the day they start to build these facilities. Here we can only guess what the plan is by these evidences.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
You need read some chinese news, Huangpu shipyard introduced it, it has a width of 45m and height 50m, and in the picture, they are building a 2700 teu container ship, I think this ship can be defined as a "large ship", but it's ok if you don't agree.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

And this facility is samiliar with the old shipyard, if not for warships, what kind of ships need this high-tech and expensive indoor ship cradle?

And you said the time, if they start now, how long time they need. I agree. But possibly they already started it many years ago. As far as my understanding, PLA has a huge plan for everything, they start the training the day they start to build these facilities. Here we can only guess what the plan is by these evidences.
These facilities are not built by PLA. These facilities are built by SOE with money rolled by Chinese investment and infrastructure banks. Sure they all answer to the same master, but they are still different entities with different intentions. China, and its organizations, isn't a singular monolithic entity. Each organization functions with its own self interest. These facilities are made to make money through industry, pay the bank, pay employees and so on. An SOE is responsible for its own profit, and they are not to big to fail and closed by their owners (government) should they fail. Even if all these shipbuilding SOEs answer to the same master, they all compete against each other for the commercial business. GH is losing business to other shipyards that can make bigger ships, so naturally it has to find a place to make a larger shipyard. HDZ had the same situation.

2700 TEU is actually pretty small in commercial ship world. Large majority of container ships are over 5000 TEU and over 20,000, and that is why large shipyards are a necessity for this sort of business. Nonetheless this should be big enough to do destroyer or large frigate in those facilities. But it does not mean this facility is intentionally made for making destroyers or frigates, otherwise they would have already done it yesterday. There is nothing here that suggest they can build a destroyer right away without lead time for training, retooling and reorganization.
 

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