Type 054B/next generation FFG thread


supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
Its not. I don't know why some people in these Russian defense forums are so obsessed about PESA and why they, or some others, think it would be difficult to do AESA, even with Russian radar companies have been working on AESA designs and modules since the 2000s. That's a long time ago. Plus there are many smaller companies in Australia, Israel, India, Sweden, Italy, Netherlands, Turkey, and Spain that already have produced operational AESA designs for some years now or working on them.

This is the Zaslon MF radar in display, and you can see the back of it, you can see access panels and is divided into subassemblies.

View attachment 61815

View attachment 61816

Now compare those with the Thales SeaFire 500.

View attachment 61819

View attachment 61820

View attachment 61821
I can't read all the technical specifications posted by Snake, but definitely it's outlining Active functions for Zaslon MF on X, S bands, and different Passive functions on L, S, X, C, Ku, followed by another set of (passive) functions on S, C, X, Ku and finally one last set on just X and Ku.

Back on topic now...

If 2 face radar can continuously illuminate targets, is there any immediate need for active seeker missile?
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
I can't read all the technical specifications posted by Snake, but definitely it's outlining Active functions for Zaslon MF on X, S bands, and different Passive functions on L, S, X, C, Ku, followed by another set of (passive) functions on S, C, X, Ku and finally one last set on just X and Ku.
They displayed the specs but also along with the whole integrated mast. The integrated mast has TK-25E-5, which is a brand new ESM set. See the large chunky thing below the navigation radar. ECM and ESM sets are usually hung around the sides of the mast, for Russian warships, a practice that is also followed by the PLAN.

20385_gremyshii_spb_190720_4_08.jpg

Data is scant I only have this.

TK-25E-5 ECM system is designed to intercept emissions of airborne and shipborne tar-get acquisition radars, weapons control radars and anti-ship missile radar seekers, to perform automatic signal classification, to determine most dangerous approaches of attacks against the ship, and to provide jamming in threat directions.TK-25E-5’s configuration depends on carrier-ship type and displacement. Source scribd.com

GENERAL DATA:
Type: ESM Altitude Max: 0 m
Range Max: 926 km Altitude Min: 0 m
Range Min: 0 km Generation: Early 2000s
SENSORS / EW:
TK-25-2 ESM – ESM
Role: ELINT w/ OTH Targeting
Max Range: 926 km
Source cmano-db.com

The ECM and ESM sets are all over the mast, right next to the Zaslons. Far more likely the passive and the jamming capabilities are from the TK-25E-5 set. This version of the TK-25 is so brand new, its not seen on the Admiral Gorshkov class. Only the Project 20385 has this, and my bet is the new EW suite will also make its appearance in future batches of the Gorshkov, as well with the Zaslon and the integrated mast.

capture2-5.jpg

Back on topic now...

If 2 face radar can continuously illuminate targets, is there any immediate need for active seeker missile?
There is already a patent to what you are saying "If 2 face radar can continuously illuminate targets,"

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Its already expired however. But I doubt the two faced radar you see on Weapons Test Ship 892 does missile target illumination because its going to be working on the S-band if its meant as a Type 382 "Top Plate" replacement, and is meant primarily as a pulse search radar. For missile target illumination, the radar has to be a continuous wave X-band radar. I also doubt that the other two faced radar, the one you see on the Type 075, works as a continuous wave X-band radar, and even if one side is an X-band the other side isn't.

What the two sided S-band radar can do is tell the active missile where the target is via datalink, and guide the missile on its mid phase towards the target till the target is at the range of the active radar seeker on the missile, and missile activates it. Do note that active seekers tend to have a short seeker range, due to the size of the antenna, which is small, being battery powered, which limits your power, and uses high X, K or Ku band frequency for angular resolution. So its the job of the main radar to bring the active seeker missile to within range of its own seeker.

Yes. Active seekers allow for a high number of simultaneous engagement, and engagement beyond the horizon.

Just to toss this in. Remember the Chinese lantern mock up in Wuhan? That's supposed to contain a two faced radar. Given the size of it, I think that's the one that ended up on the Type 075 but the radome is cancelled.

EZafrFnU4AIXaKa.jpeg

EZaO_xDU4AExbV5.jpeg
 

Errys

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:: Type 054B

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Type 054B

Type 054B
Initial Operational Capability (IOC): 2019
Total Production: 2
Also Known As: Jiangkai-III
Origin:
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Corporations: China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation CSIC
Parent System: Type 054
Initial Operational Capability (IOC): 2005
Total Production: 36
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Description: The Type 054 class frigate has been designed as the replacement for aging and obsolete Type 053 frigates within the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN). Type 054, NATO codename Jiangkai, are 3,400-ton class ships featuring stealthy design with reduced radar cross section and infrared signature for enhanced survivability. In addition, these ships are suitable for offshore and oceanic/blue water operations. Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard and Guangzhou Huangpu Shipyard are responsible for the construction of the Type 054 frigates. The lead ship, FFG 525 Ma'anshan, was commissioned by PLAN in 2005.

The 5,000-ton class Type 054B or Jiangkai-III multi-purpose frigates are a further derivate of the Type 54 class vessels with enhanced anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities and an all-electric propulsion system developing 20 MW. China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) is responsible for the construction of the lead ship. The larger Type 054B frigates integrates both flight deck and hangar for a single Z-9C or Ka-28 ASW helicopter. Her vertical launch system (VLS) will accept HHQ-16C/D surface-to-air missiles, CY-3 anti-submarine missiles and YJ-85 supersonic long-range land attack/anti-ship missiles. Due to its larger hull the Type 054B may be fitted with more than 32 VLS cells. The ship will be fitted with an eight-cell FL-3000N close range air defense system similar to the US Navy's RAM anti-missile system. The weapon system also includes a 76mm PJ26 dual purpose gun, Type 81 anti-submarine rocket launcher and two triple 324mm torpedo tubes. The Type 054B existence was revealed in 2013 with the lead ship to be commissioned by the PLAN in 2016 or 2017.

Type 054B Specifications
Number of Aircraft: 1
Torpedo Tubes: 6
Dimensions
Beam: 16 meter (52 foot)
Length: 140 meter (459 foot)
Main Gun Caliber: 76 millimeter
Power
Total Combined Power: 20 MW (26,810 hp)
Weight
Full Displacement: 5,000 ton

View attachment 62376

Type 054B Ship Listing

SerialNameStatusLaunch DateCommissionDecommission
551
8 Jun 20162018-
#2
-2019-
 

Figaro

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:: Type 054B

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Type 054B

Type 054B
Initial Operational Capability (IOC): 2019
Total Production: 2
Also Known As: Jiangkai-III
Origin:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Corporations: China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation CSIC
Parent System: Type 054
Initial Operational Capability (IOC): 2005
Total Production: 36
Family Members:
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and
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Reviews
There are no reviews so far

Description: The Type 054 class frigate has been designed as the replacement for aging and obsolete Type 053 frigates within the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN). Type 054, NATO codename Jiangkai, are 3,400-ton class ships featuring stealthy design with reduced radar cross section and infrared signature for enhanced survivability. In addition, these ships are suitable for offshore and oceanic/blue water operations. Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard and Guangzhou Huangpu Shipyard are responsible for the construction of the Type 054 frigates. The lead ship, FFG 525 Ma'anshan, was commissioned by PLAN in 2005.

The 5,000-ton class Type 054B or Jiangkai-III multi-purpose frigates are a further derivate of the Type 54 class vessels with enhanced anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capabilities and an all-electric propulsion system developing 20 MW. China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) is responsible for the construction of the lead ship. The larger Type 054B frigates integrates both flight deck and hangar for a single Z-9C or Ka-28 ASW helicopter. Her vertical launch system (VLS) will accept HHQ-16C/D surface-to-air missiles, CY-3 anti-submarine missiles and YJ-85 supersonic long-range land attack/anti-ship missiles. Due to its larger hull the Type 054B may be fitted with more than 32 VLS cells. The ship will be fitted with an eight-cell FL-3000N close range air defense system similar to the US Navy's RAM anti-missile system. The weapon system also includes a 76mm PJ26 dual purpose gun, Type 81 anti-submarine rocket launcher and two triple 324mm torpedo tubes. The Type 054B existence was revealed in 2013 with the lead ship to be commissioned by the PLAN in 2016 or 2017.

Type 054B Specifications
Number of Aircraft: 1
Torpedo Tubes: 6
Dimensions
Beam: 16 meter (52 foot)
Length: 140 meter (459 foot)
Main Gun Caliber: 76 millimeter
Power
Total Combined Power: 20 MW (26,810 hp)
Weight
Full Displacement: 5,000 ton

View attachment 62376

Type 054B Ship Listing

SerialNameStatusLaunch DateCommissionDecommission
551
8 Jun 20162018-
#2
-2019-
Anything from Deagel should not be considered reliable
 

obj 705A

New Member
Registered Member
Currently the Type 054B does not exist and it will probably never exist (at least not in the next 10 years), China probably dropped the idea of a brand new FFG in favor of more Type 052D & Type 055.
This thread has been a sticky thread for a while now and people have been discussing this non existant ship for several years yet not a single evidence came out that proves the PLAN is gonna build such a ship. Nothing but CGIs and endless speculation Therefore it would be best to demote this thread to being non sticky.
 

Bhurki

Junior Member
Registered Member
Currently the Type 054B does not exist and it will probably never exist (at least not in the next 10 years), China probably dropped the idea of a brand new FFG in favor of more Type 052D & Type 055.
This thread has been a sticky thread for a while now and people have been discussing this non existant ship for several years yet not a single evidence came out that proves the PLAN is gonna build such a ship. Nothing but CGIs and endless speculation Therefore it would be best to demote this thread to being non sticky.
It might not strictly be 054b, but a successor to 054a will come, and is definitely something thats needed for escort, low intensity, asub duties. You can't just have destroyers for everything. USN learnt it the hard way(high costs), hence ffg(x).

There's a reason there are so many frigates in operation around the world, and that reason is their dual role capabilities in both peace and wartimes, along with ease of operation at a lower price.
They are especially useful for countries trying to maintain sea control within 2000 nmi of the ships' homeport.
 

obj 705A

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It might not strictly be 054b, but a successor to 054a will come, and is definitely something thats needed for escort, low intensity, asub duties. You can't just have destroyers for everything. USN learnt it the hard way(high costs), hence ffg(x).

There's a reason there are so many frigates in operation around the world, and that reason is their dual role capabilities in both peace and wartimes, along with ease of operation at a lower price.
They are especially useful for countries trying to maintain sea control within 2000 nmi of the ships' homeport.
Aside from speculation , is there any evidence (by evidence I mean a leak from a well respected source) that a brand new kind of FFG will exist in the near future (ie: in the next 2 years)? Back on PDF the only time any source talked about this alleged new FFG was in 2017 and latter in 2018 (fzgfzy). It's 2020 now, anything new from a well respected source to indicate this ship will exist?
 

Dante80

Junior Member
Registered Member
Currently the Type 054B does not exist and it will probably never exist (at least not in the next 10 years), China probably dropped the idea of a brand new FFG in favor of more Type 052D & Type 055.
This thread has been a sticky thread for a while now and people have been discussing this non existant ship for several years yet not a single evidence came out that proves the PLAN is gonna build such a ship. Nothing but CGIs and endless speculation Therefore it would be best to demote this thread to being non sticky.
This thread is based on two things. The new radar tested and the leaks about simultaneous 054A and 054B production. The leaks came from a very respected source btw (POP3).



None of those factors are going away.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Aside from speculation , is there any evidence (by evidence I mean a leak from a well respected source) that a brand new kind of FFG will exist in the near future (ie: in the next 2 years)? Back on PDF the only time any source talked about this alleged new FFG was in 2017 and latter in 2018 (fzgfzy). It's 2020 now, anything new from a well respected source to indicate this ship will exist?
There was a published classified ad looking to hire a QT engineer to work for a XX4B project.

ENm0284U0AAxLTx (1).jpeg
 

lcloo

Junior Member
This thread is based on two things. The new radar tested and the leaks about simultaneous 054A and 054B production. The leaks came from a very respected source btw (POP3).



None of those factors are going away.
Pop3 wrote 054A will continue to be in batch production, in 2 digit quantity; 054B will also be started soon.

The continue production of later variants of 054A (likely with improved features) may indicate that the new revolutionary technology for type 054B will need to prove its effectiveness in real operations at seas, as such continue production later variants of 054A is more like an insurance incase the new tech on 054B does not worked as expected. Take US example, after building Zumwalt class large DDG, USN planned continue to build AB flight III class DDG.

When the new technology is too revolutionary, it may not work as expected, or the cost is simply too high.

Therefor we might see in near future that both 054A+? and 054B will be built at the same time, which is what Pop3 was writing. If 054B has problems it may take few years to solve, then 054A's continue production can avoid gaps in new ships replacing those old type 053 (around 16-17 ships).
 
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