Type 054/A FFG Thread II


nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
That's difficult to answer, not to mention, both ships have different configurations within the class due to batch productions and refits. True sonar capabilities are also opsec on both sides. Don't ask these kinds of questions that you know you can't get a straight answer. US Navy has far more experience however and the better helicopter.
I think it is safe to guess that the Burke's being much larger ships, their sizeable bow sonars have the inherent potential to be more capable. Having said that, I agree that helicopters are the main ASW asset.
 

caohailiang

Junior Member
Registered Member
You can make up your mind and get a feel of the subject by looking at the capability.

Here is a good source you can read.

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H/SJG-206 Towed Array Sonar, developed in 2003. This is analogous or roughly equivalent to USN's AN/SQR-19 TACTAS. This is a passive towed array only, meaning its only listens and does not emit a sound to echo. Some Chinese articles are saying Type 206 TAS has a potential range up to 100km. You can believe or you can not, but at the very least, H/SJG-206 is an enormous step forward for Chinese sonars and ASW capability. Type 206 appears in the first 16 ships of the 054A, the six Type 052C and it was refitted to the Type 052 Harbin and Qingdao, replacing their original TAS and VDS.

Namely you drag around a line. Here is how the AN/SQR-19 looks like, and Type 206 should be similar.

View attachment 68734

H/SJG-206 is followed up by H/SJG-311, which I would here on refer to as Type 311 for simplicity. The difference is that it includes an active emitting sonar body, which we call the VDS on a separate reel.


View attachment 68736

Should work like this.

View attachment 68737


Having a towed array sonar with a variable depth sonar is currently the gold standard for submarine detection from a surface ship.

After the 16th Type 054A to the 30th, they are equipped with the Type 311. This is also the standard for the Type 052D and the Type 056A. However, we are also seeing older Type 054A getting overhauled, so there is a possibility Type 311 might be being refitted on older ships getting overhauls but we don't know for sure and there's no confirmation. Its something to look forward and consider about and to look for when we see new photographs. In addition we see 054A getting various minor refits and retcons, so the ships may not need a scheduled maintenance to undergo this upgrade procedure.

The two Type 054 currently on refit lacks both Type 206 and 311 in their original form, so I would be eager to see if the MLU overhaul would include this. We have seen the two Type 052 get new sonars, maybe Type 206 maybe Type 311 but for sure the ships got upgraded on their sonars, so that's a possibility they can do the same for the two frigates.

Burkes use the AN/SQR-19, but the AN/SQR-20 is now offered as part of refit, so older ships are being upgraded to this. SQR-20 features an active sonar component. New Burkes being introduced this decade should equip this as a standard.
Thank you very much for this. And do we know if z20 can fit into 054a, or it is stuck with z9?
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Thank you very much for this. And do we know if z20 can fit into 054a, or it is stuck with z9?



One final thing. I expect all these ships to work like this, given that there are upgrades to the 054A's satellite communication systems that are visible over the years, . Not just the 054A but practically with every PLAN warship down to the 056/056A. They will use the satellite networks as a wireless router for cooperative data exchange and form a wide area net.



img2019_soubi_kansen01.png


For the purposes of ASW even the 053H2G and 053H3 might still be useful, as they feature towed arrays, helo decks complete with hangers. The question is whether they have been upgraded to the H/SJG-206 or H/SJG-311 from their original VDS. It would be easy to upgrade these ships, requiring only minimal modification. However with everything internal, confirmation of upgrades is impossible from a visual standpoint.

From the point of view of ASW, the two veteran 052 destroyers, the Qingdao and Harbin are much more useful than its successors, the 051B, the two 051C and the two 052B. The ships have two helicopters with hangers, and originally came with a VDS, leaving plenty of space for upgrades. During their lengthy refits, which ended in 2011, the ships are likely to have been upgraded to the H/SJD-9 bow sonar, same as the 052C/D, and either the H/SJG-206 or 311 for the towed sonars. If so, that makes them as useful for ASW purposes as any ship in the fleet.


images (16).jpeg


Heading forward, the question is whether the two 054 frigates being refitted would see some ASW related upgrades, like the mentioned towed arrays.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
I think it is safe to guess that the Burke's being much larger ships, their sizeable bow sonars have the inherent potential to be more capable. Having said that, I agree that helicopters are the main ASW asset.

If I recall the Type 054A uses the H/SJD-9 bow sonar which is the same one used on the 052C/D. But I find pictures where the 054A bow is exposed to be very rare and information on the H/SJD-9 bow sonar to be scant. The Burke has a big bow sonar called SQS-59, and its in the process of being upgraded to SQQ-89.
 

nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
One final thing. I expect all these ships to work like this, given that there are upgrades to the 054A's satellite communication systems that are visible over the years, . Not just the 054A but practically with every PLAN warship down to the 056/056A. They will use the satellite networks as a wireless router for cooperative data exchange and form a wide area net.
They should have a backup OTH RF link, akin to Link 11?
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
They should have a backup OTH RF link, akin to Link 11?

What I mean is they communicate directly to satellites, and from there its relayed downward to other ships, aircraft, UAVs and land stations.

When the class first appeared, there are two kinds of SATCOMs onboard the ships. Today, there is about four kinds. What interests me is one that has a circular, not a globular appearance, and this is a pivoting flat panel as in phase array antenna. This is obviously a high speed digital data link. These below are civilian examples.

unnamed (2).png0-COziyG.jpg

You see these in the right corners, much bigger than the civilian samples. They are not the primary subjects of the pictures and its easy not to pay attention to them.

微信图片_20200720231808.jpg微信图片_20200720231813 (1).jpg002ujtFnly1gimv16bow4j618z0u0hdt02 (1).jpg

And you see it in many ships too, like the ASW oriented Type 056A right there on top of the bridge.

309c2370489b21417a0338.jpg


Another thing that is a mystery to me is that you have the VDS bay door port at the back of the Type 054A and the Type 052D, but there is an identical door at the aft port or starboard side of both ships. Curious. Is this for another VDS? There are a few pictures I have seen this bay door open but its from a distance to ascertain what is in it.
 
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para80

New Member
Registered Member
Dont think we have had this in thread before, but two new 054A hulls laid down at Hudong after the dock flushed out the third 075 for PLAN and second 054AP for Pakistan. Logically these could be the third and fourth hulls for Pakistan also but I guess its possible they may now join Huangpu for the new PLAN-batch? In any case I find it quite remarkable how quickly that hull on the right especially has come together since launching the previous builds. Source for shots is @Fbi6fgjRl130q4U on Twitter.



EuLfwe1VIAITQwX.jpg
 

Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Dont think we have had this in thread before, but two new 054A hulls laid down at Hudong after the dock flushed out the third 075 for PLAN and second 054AP for Pakistan. Logically these could be the third and fourth hulls for Pakistan also but I guess its possible they may now join Huangpu for the new PLAN-batch? In any case I find it quite remarkable how quickly that hull on the right especially has come together since launching the previous builds. Source for shots is @Fbi6fgjRl130q4U on Twitter.



View attachment 68810

I suspect these two hulls are for Pakistan.

It was said a while back that out of the 20 new order 054As for the PLAN, HP would be building 12 while HD would be building 8, so that both would be building a total of 12 054As (when including the 4 054APs that HD is building for Pakistan).
It sounds like a realistic and fair argument to me, but we'll see.

As for these two 054A hulls in the picture, we had pictures of them sitting there alongside the drydock when 075 unit 3 was launched a few weeks back, and they looked pretty much ready to lay down and assemble in the drydock.

Putting them into the drydock and welding them together is a relatively simple process, I wouldn't be surprised if the one on the left side of the picture looks like the right one in a week or two.
 

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