Type 052C/052D Class Destroyers


by78

Lieutenant General
156 in transit.

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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Crap that was a typo. I meant to type 052E not 054E

I agree the 052D is showing it's age. It is quite thin with a beam of just 17m compared to AB/Type 26/Type 45 which are all over 20 meters


055 really feels like it would be too big to mass produce unlike the US's 80+ Arleigh Burkes

It has the DNA from the Type 052 Harbin and Qingdao, with the platform taking sharper focus on the 052B Guangzhou and Wuhan (what happened to 052A?)

The ship is maxed at this point. Lets not forget it is also cramped, with sensors, weapons and other equipment, the ship is armed to the gills. I would believe it if they say the ship is not comfortable on long journeys.

The only possible thing I can improve on the ship is to change the 2D Type 364 surface search radar on top to a 3D one, like the dual sided radar on the 075.

Arleigh Burke is also an aging platform. To be able to handle the power and cooling requirements of its AESAs, a good part of the hull has to be redesigned. Over the years it already has been subjected to many modifications. The USN has been planning for its replacement since the 2000s, but the Zumwalt story put a cork in that. The 80+ Arleigh Burkes started its first build in 1988 and was commissioned in 1991, the year the first 052 was launched. So the ship class has an enormous head start and it continues to be built because of the lack of a proper successor. If the Zumwalt was successful, the Burke would have stopped production some time ago.

055 ain't too big to mass produce. Chinese shipyards are constantly building ships with an empty weight well over 60,000 tons and can hold over 200,000 tons. Compared to the commercial produce, the 055 is tiny. What's expensive about the 055 is the systems, the electronics and weapons. But the country can more than afford to open the wallet for it, and this being on a state owned shipyard and everything being indigenous, spending is more like transferring money from one pocket to another. Its like you are paying yourself. The real bottleneck comes from training the people to run it.

In hindsight, what was done to make the 052 into the 052D took a lot of engineering guts. Pretty large AESAs there on a relatively small ship, on top of putting 64 VLS that certainly ain't small, probably the world's first CCL to reach operational service.
 
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ZeEa5KPul

Senior Member
Registered Member
The real bottleneck comes from training the people to run it.
Why would that be a bottleneck? The naval academies and training institutes are even more state-owned than SOEs since there isn't even a pretense of a profit motive. If there's a bottleneck it's the ridiculously low defense outlay of 1.4%.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Why would that be a bottleneck? The naval academies and training institutes are even more state-owned than SOEs since there isn't even a pretense of a profit motive. If there's a bottleneck it's the ridiculously low defense outlay of 1.4%.

We have seen such bottleneck, like the hold up on finished 052D destroyers in Dalian that was destined to the 10th Destroyer Division, because the 10th wasn't ready to accept them.

Fresh people from the naval academies are likely to go into the smaller ships first, like frigates. But experienced officers and personnel with experience are what you would want for your best ships, and you might have to pull that out from existing ships.
 

Gloire_bb

Senior Member
Registered Member
055 ain't too big to mass produce. Chinese shipyards are constantly building ships with an empty weight well over 60,000 tons and can hold over 200,000 tons.
Comparing military ships and bulk/oil/whatever carriers is of little value here.
Mass producing the latter is by no means equal to any ability to mass-produce hull of any relative size to military standards.
Just like WW2 ability to produce thousands of liberties by no means meant that cruisers of similar displacement could be produced at a similar tempo.
It came to the conclusion that the Burke was inefficient as it was too complex given the hull volume. And that the larger Japanese hulls were more efficient.
052d is smaller than Burke, however. And is probably way closer to the notional optimum for complexity per ton.

Its lesser effectiveness for its main roles actually requires proof. Not that it isn't true, but it has to be shown.
Not just for 055 v 052d, but also for 055 v 055/052d mix.
Also, the Type-055 comes in at $900M which is half the cost of an Arleigh Burke.
There is merit in adjusting prices to PPP for a more proper ratio. Or better just use rmb prices.
Both 055 and 052d ships are largely domestically built.
 

lcloo

Senior Member
We have seen such bottleneck, like the hold up on finished 052D destroyers in Dalian that was destined to the 10th Destroyer Division, because the 10th wasn't ready to accept them.

Fresh people from the naval academies are likely to go into the smaller ships first, like frigates. But experienced officers and personnel with experience are what you would want for your best ships, and you might have to pull that out from existing ships.
I would like to have a source or a link to the bold statement. Thank you.
 

daifo

Junior Member
Registered Member
How likely are we to see an extended 052D or a 054E with additional 16 VLS?

That would make it basically a Burke equivalent

Internally the ship is maxed out and making the hull even longer than the DL may effect propulsion/energy requirements. However, I wonder if they could add a mk-29 like external launchers for the new quad pack missiles.
 

blindsight

Junior Member
Registered Member
It has the DNA from the Type 052 Harbin and Qingdao, with the platform taking sharper focus on the 052B Guangzhou and Wuhan (what happened to 052A?)
Both 052s (112&113) use the LM2500. PLAN later planned to use the Ukrainian AM50 for the successors, which was supposed to be the 052A. But later PLAN managed to get the more powerful DA80, so they canceled 052A and designed the larger 052B/C.
 

sndef888

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm not an expert but my gut feel tells me there is still a value proposition for a mix of 055 and AB-sized destroyers instead of 055 alone

Perhaps they could use a shortened 055 hull as a new 052E
 

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