Turkey Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


CasualObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is extraordinarily impressive btw. Congrats to Turkey. Even though this is a start, it is an impressive one and the timeline they suggested. Kudos to the engineers and program managers they've done a China pace development with less resources!

And yeah that skin looks second to none. All this for a prototype level too. Factory also looks second to none. Nice new facilities TAI built for this program. Went from 0 to 100 and delivered.

Also looks like the Turks know a few things about marketing. Honestly seems like some very switched on people are managing everything there.
I don't agree on marketing, but I agree on the rest. I think they're doing such a dull and an extremely mediocre job with what they have when what they have is such an exciting project for audiences domestic and abroad.
 

CasualObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
Some Su-57 engine fans are exposed from some frontal angles. Other fighters use serpentine intakes. Take a look at J-10B/C or J-20 from any angle, all you see when you look into the intakes are the curvatures of the serpentine intake.

It was suggested long ago that Su-57 will employ some blockers and other less well known (in the public domain) methods to negate this.
Su-57 probably has an RCS level that is either less or similar to a clean Super Hornet but the difference is that a Hornet would be (almost) useless in a clean config while the Felon carries its weapons inside.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Su-57 probably has an RCS level that is either less or similar to a clean Super Hornet but the difference is that a Hornet would be (almost) useless in a clean config while the Felon carries its weapons inside.

No use speculating on that anymore. Was all done from 2010 to 2018 lol. Su-57 may have considerably better RCS compared to clean SH. It may have only comparable RCS, who knows. It's not all just external shaping. It's materials too and the Russians suggest their Su-57 use specialised stealth materials. The SH simply does not have that level of "detail" on everything. The Su-57's main RCS drawback is the exposed fans. Which was the topic of the posts. When I brought up the Su-57 I meant out of visibly definite stealth fighters there's the two Lockmart products and the J-20. The Su-57 seems to have the exposed fan issue (among some others) and the KFX has no internal bays. So if TFX delivers a Lockmart style 5th gen with internal bays, it's already part of that former group.

The TFX's timeline is ahead of AMCA and if we, for sake of this point, negate the KFX and Su-57 (paint, fan, canopy vents, vents, spherical OLS, fuselage tunnel), then Turkey will be the third nation to produce a 5th generation fighter (of the definition implied here). I'm ignoring outsourced components and engine etc. I'm qualifying this as simply their own product as in produced by themselves and supplied for their own airforce.
 

CasualObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
No use speculating on that anymore. Was all done from 2010 to 2018 lol. Su-57 may have considerably better RCS compared to clean SH. It may have only comparable RCS, who knows. It's not all just external shaping. It's materials too and the Russians suggest their Su-57 use specialised stealth materials. The SH simply does not have that level of "detail" on everything. The Su-57's main RCS drawback is the exposed fans. Which was the topic of the posts. When I brought up the Su-57 I meant out of visibly definite stealth fighters there's the two Lockmart products and the J-20. The Su-57 seems to have the exposed fan issue (among some others) and the KFX has no internal bays. So if TFX delivers a Lockmart style 5th gen with internal bays, it's already part of that former group.

The TFX's timeline is ahead of AMCA and if we, for sake of this point, negate the KFX and Su-57 (paint, fan, canopy vents, vents, spherical OLS, fuselage tunnel), then Turkey will be the third nation to produce a 5th generation fighter (of the definition implied here). I'm ignoring outsourced components and engine etc. I'm qualifying this as simply their own product as in produced by themselves and supplied for their own airforce.
Outsourced components don't matter anyways, of all the 40 most critical components, 8 or less are of foreign origin, them being the engines, the ejection seat, etc. that are not yet nationalized.
 

Abominable

Captain
Registered Member
I cannot say I am terribly surprised at this since Turkey used to assemble F-16s and the GE F110 engines for them.
But it remains to be seen if they can put this into production.

Why do people think Sweden, a country with 10 million people, can do a project like this and Turkey, a country with 84 million cannot?
Turkey has about the same population as Germany and more industry than a lot of people give it credit for.

But without a native engine this project might be stillborn. Just like other historic projects like the Helwan HA-300. Or feature an older generation engine like IAe 33 Pulqui II and not be competitive.

I do think they are biting on quite a lot though. Not just the airframe but the radar and avionics as well. I doubt they can do this project without buying a lot of components abroad, which they can do because they are in NATO, but I doubt the US military industrial complex will want the extra competition. If this is successful they would lose a lot of sales to Muslim countries.

The tail of it looks an awful lot like a Russian aircraft's such as Su-57. The front looks like a Japanese X-2 Shinshin. Not bad.
Sweden is a bad example of how to make a fighter jet if you are talking about the Gripen.

I was skeptical whether Turkey could pull this off, but looks like I was wrong. Impressive progress in such a short period of time.

The engine is going to be the real bottleneck for this project. If they are going to depend on the Americans it'll come back to bite them.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
Sweden is a bad example of how to make a fighter jet if you are talking about the Gripen.
I was skeptical whether Turkey could pull this off, but looks like I was wrong. Impressive progress in such a short period of time.
The engine is going to be the real bottleneck for this project. If they are going to depend on the Americans it'll come back to bite them.
Why is it a bad example? The Swedes make their own airframe, avionics, and they assemble licensed engines from US parts kits.
The Swedes have made jet fighters ever since WW2. They have been there for a long time. You wish the Turks had that much of a tradition.

1669300595179.png1669300545088.png1669300673206.png1669300796107.png
1669300828253.png1669300890335.png
 

siegecrossbow

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Just a top view comparison of J-20 and Bayraktar Kizilelma.

View attachment 102362
By that idiot sandwich on Twitter.

They seriously need a EJ-200 class engine in Kizielma. Airframe’s advantage in high velocity regime can’t be exploited unless there is a sufficiently powerful engine to match. I don’t know why they don’t go for EJ-200 when relations are good with the UK.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
I agree. UK has much less tradition of imposing sanctions on arms sales than other countries. Of all the Western countries which have appropriate engines it is the most suitable. And they have been wanting partners on engine and aircraft programs for a long time.
 

Abominable

Captain
Registered Member
Why is it a bad example? The Swedes make their own airframe, avionics, and they assemble licensed engines from US parts kits.
The Swedes have made jet fighters ever since WW2. They have been there for a long time. You wish the Turks had that much of a tradition.

View attachment 102364View attachment 102363View attachment 102365View attachment 102366
View attachment 102367View attachment 102368
A few years back the Swiss had a report leaked on comparing the Gripen to the F-35 and eurofighter for a procurement order. They found that not only was it significantly inferior to both of them, it was also inferior to the existing F/A-18s they had.

Then there's the engine. Americans have been making jet engines since they were invented, they know what they're doing and admitted make the best. The Swedes decide that isn't enough and decide to make their own. Except they can't so they modify an American one. It turns out it has a reduced power output, so they claim it is more resistant to bird strikes (lol).

They've also had accidents where pilots have crashed because of poorly placed controls like the ejector. Sweden lacks the big pilot pool countries like America, China and Russia have so it's harder for them to pick up on problems.

It's a vanity project for the Swedish military.
 

Top