The "India vs China" threads encourage vitriolic slander and should be removed

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externallisting

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Registered Member
It's entirely unbecoming of a professional forum which for so many years I've enjoyed allow itself become a ****fest in certain areas.

I entirely dislike how discussion regarding certain topics, especially those involving the US and India have denigrated as such. I genuinely thought this happened upon circumstance, understandably about certain political statements and actions, but allowing for this to build has been wholly disappointing. There are people outright calling for genocide/war, among slews of racist unmoderated comments.

I understand plenty of the mods have other things to do than moderate, but I really feel there needs to be more active moderation, particularly in specific areas in order for this community for it to not devolve into nationalistic cesspool-like thinking.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
It's entirely unbecoming of a professional forum which for so many years I've enjoyed allow itself become a ****fest in certain areas.

I entirely dislike how discussion regarding certain topics, especially those involving the US and India have denigrated as such. I genuinely thought this happened upon circumstance, understandably about certain political statements and actions, but allowing for this to build has been wholly disappointing. There are people outright calling for genocide/war, among slews of racist unmoderated comments.

I understand plenty of the mods have other things to do than moderate, but I really feel there needs to be more active moderation, particularly in specific areas in order for this community for it to not devolve into nationalistic cesspool-like thinking.
Despite my account creation date being relatively late, I have also lurked here for a while prior to my account being created. As far as I remember, this forum advocated for an unbiased and technical perspective of primarily Chinese military tech. There shouldn't have been any political threads to begin with. However, there are users here who contribute a lot to the technical threads while still being nationalistic. If you ban them, this forum will be dead. I believe the mods mentioned this before and believe that such nationalism is inevitable. Because of this, we have discussed this in depth several months ago and reached a consensus: as long as the nationalistic posts from both sides do not enter the technical threads, the political threads will not be touched. Besides, this forum is famous for its technical threads, NOT its political ones.

Aside from that, if you find a user that advocated for something like genocide, then you should immediately report them. If you look at the ban list, many users got banned for that, and the consensus was enforced rather strictly. If you want to engage in an unbiased political discussion, you are going to have to go somewhere else.
 

nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
This forum started going down the drain since at least 2018. Even in the technical threads, vitriolic political remarks are thrown about on a weekly basis. I try my best to report behavior that is out of place, but it's my impression that the moderation is not impartial. Some members are given far more leeway to engage in verbal abuse, because they post 50 photos a day and are seen as an (indispensable?) contributor.

IMO, all political threads should be closed and outlawed indefinitely. This forum doesn't need anything but technical threads. The people who set up this forum forbade such discussions for a good reason.
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Despite my account creation date being relatively late, I have also lurked here for a while prior to my account being created. As far as I remember, this forum advocated for an unbiased and technical perspective of primarily Chinese military tech. There shouldn't have been any political threads to begin with. However, there are users here who contribute a lot to the technical threads while still being nationalistic. If you ban them, this forum will be dead. I believe the mods mentioned this before and believe that such nationalism is inevitable. Because of this, we have discussed this in depth several months ago and reached a consensus: as long as the nationalistic posts from both sides do not enter the technical threads, the political threads will not be touched. Besides, this forum is famous for its technical threads, NOT its political ones.

Aside from that, if you find a user that advocated for something like genocide, then you should immediately report them. If you look at the ban list, many users got banned for that, and the consensus was enforced rather strictly. If you want to engage in an unbiased political discussion, you are going to have to go somewhere else.

The other issue is that in the late 2010s the nature of the geopolitical competition has become such that various topics like technology, economy, industry, global policy, are immediately relevant to that topic, which is one that naturally many users here are interested in.

Simply banning all of those topics would be nigh impossible given the userbase of the forum, even if one wanted to exclusively focus on technical military discussion.

The next best thing is to separate the various subforums with threads that are related to politics, away from the primary military subforums and threads, with the enforcement of rules in the non-military subforums primarily around explicit outright offensiveness, personal attacks, profanity, etc, so that the military specific subforums and threads can at least do their thing.


Until such a time that a higher level decision as to what the long term goal and vision for this forum is articulated, this is the least worst option we have available to us, and the existence of those politics related subforums is just the price of entry.



The world isn't what it was in the early/mid 2000s anymore, and the attitudes of the userbase and the makeup of the userbase has also changed with it.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
This forum started going down the drain since at least 2018. Even in the technical threads, vitriolic political remarks are thrown about on a weekly basis. I try my best to report behavior that is out of place, but it's my impression that the moderation is not impartial. Some members are given far more leeway to engage in verbal abuse, because they post 50 photos a day and are seen as an (indispensable?) contributor.

IMO, all political threads should be closed and outlawed indefinitely. This forum doesn't need anything but technical threads. The people who set up this forum forbade such discussions for a good reason.
I'll ask you a simple question: Why are you here? If SDF is going down the drain, you ought to consider spending your time in a place you think isn't going down the drain. Might I suggest f-16.net?

The userbase becoming more pro-China isn't the forum "going down the drain". People like you have your views represented in 99.99...9% of the English-speaking internet, yet the trivial fraction that doesn't reflect your views and values troubles you to no end. Why is that?

Finally, I don't usually like being this blunt but I feel it's necessary in this case. You don't get to decide what discussion should and shouldn't be allowed on this forum.
 

weig2000

Captain
Just want to chip in my 2 cents.

First of all, I like how SDF is managed currently in general. That is, separate the primary military subforums from the rest of the non-military ones and moderate them differently. SDF has grown from a very niche place for a small community of enthusiasts in PRC military equipment and its associated development to become a forum with much wider-ranging topics related to China and beyond. I felt that this is a natural evolution and development. But SDF still remains the best and biggest China-focused defense forum in English language. Let us not forget this fact. The biggest driver of the changes is simply the rise of China and the explosive growth of Chinese defense technologies, and its influence and impact on the wider world. We could ignore all these changes and their impact and bury our heads deep into the sometimes long-winded, detailed technical discussion on 054B and its speculated sensor suite, or various AShMs, for example. Or we can discuss these AND also AUKUS and its pivotal nuclear submarine deal within the broader geopolitical context (Hint: it has a lot to do with China and Chinese military development).

Secondly, the rise of China and growth of its military have also brought in a lot more interest and new members and visitors. It turns out that these new members are disproportionately ethnic Chinese or Asians or others who tend to show a certain "pro-China bias," or more precisely non-Western views. These may cause some discomfort to some western people or people who generally share western views. These should NOT be grounds for closing the relevant subforms or banning the threads, even though I'm also opposed to some of the more extreme or radical views and in favor of disciplining them when certain lines are crossed. In other words, embrace the changes which reflect the rise of China and are representative of the member base. Ultimately, the owner of SDF shall decide whether it is in his/her interest to continue to fund this website in its current form.

Lastly, I'd like to share a few words or some friendly advice with people/members who are not comfortable or in general disagree with the general sentiment reflected in the non-military subforums/threads. One is that you always have the choice of not visiting those subforums or threads. I became a SDF member almost a decade ago (and had been surfing much longer) and had never visited the non-military subforms or threads before last year. Frankly I didn't even know what chat room was for nor was I interested. Last year, you know, was a special year and many people suddenly got a lot more time to kill. I began to visit/participate in some of those threads that interest me. The net result is that I spent more time and contributed more to both military and non-military threads, relatively speaking. But you certainly can survive without visiting non-military threads, based on my own experience. Two, you can also contribute your opinions and views in these threads if you don't agree with someone or the prevailing sentiment there. You're as equal as anybody else there. Three, if either of the above two options still leave you feel uncomfortable, think about it in this way: these members that do not share your worldview in general are mostly highly educated people and come from different parts of the world with diverse personal backgrounds, they give you a window into a world that is very different from your MSM or western-view dominated forums and social media. Maybe you can learn something different for a change. Maybe these people can also have their corner of the world.
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
This forum started going down the drain since at least 2018
Jeez.. and why is that... What other thing happened in 2018 that triggered such a thing! It is very natural that things got out of control then (and will worsen in the future)


Even in the technical threads, vitriolic political remarks are thrown about on a weekly basis
They should be banned. I try to report these people as well, whenever I see them


but it's my impression that the moderation is not impartial
Moderators are humans too. And as such it is bound to not be totally impartial. You might want to look for robots instead

IMO, all political threads should be closed and outlawed indefinitely
The post above yours explained why the political threads should remain open.


This forum doesn't need anything but technical threads.
Thank you for getting yourself appointed the forum representive and gracing us with the knowledge of what this forum does or doesn't need..

There have been plenty of other threads and discussions for why political threads should remain open. You can have a look at those first before starting for the 124th time, the same debate

Lastly, the "forum going down the drain" thing is only your opinion. Personally I think it is ok. You can browse the rest of the internet if you want to read self-validating news. Reddit and Indian news is a good place to start, from what i heard
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Sorry but when I see just "nationalist" technical discussions in this forum, because they do turn out like that, there are pages upon pages of never-changing-minds debate convincing no one. Why doesn't someone complain, "Why does this have to be a Chinese military forum? Why can't it just be a military forum?" I have never seen a non-Chinese military forum not be filled with nationalistic chest thumping. This forum is tame compared to them. Some may not see it that because they're not use to a China centered English language military forum they can understand and second, a military forum not being anti-China and instead pro-enemies of China that they're use to.
 

PeregrineFalcon

New Member
Registered Member
Despite my newbie tag I have also been lurking here for a number of years. I agree that some of the more overtly racist or partisan posts/posters be banned but as AssassinMace said this forum is nothing compared to lots of others where there is plenty of anti-China posts that are extremely offensive and racist. Some posts here might seem to sound like "chest-thumping" probably because only in these recent years large advances have been made by the chinese military and understandably chinese members will "crow" a bit after years and years of listening to condescending remarks from western obervers.
 
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