TCM pseudoscience

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
I have nothing against TCM, I don't think it's purely superstition and I think a lot of TCM herbs have active ingredients that do make a difference in treating illness. In fact a lot of modern medicine is derived from these active ingredients found in traditional herbs.

However, what I have a gripe is the way that TCM is presented. TCM doctors are literally the equivalent of modern day alchemist. Instead of using evidence and trials to understand what the active ingredients are in a herb and why it treats a certain ailment. They use so called "experience" and superstition to substitute for their lack of understanding. A lot of times this is ripe for scams and frauds. Can also be harmful as well.

I don't think China should be promoting this industry in its current form. Part of the reason why Europe industrialized was because of the culture of believing in evidence and the scientific method. While the rest of the world believed in superstitions.

If China wants to catch up in science and technology, china needs to change the mindset of people. Promoting pseudoscience like TCM for nationalism is not a good idea. It's like Modi promoting Hindutva pseudoscience nonesense in India to roil up his Hindu nationalist supporters, because they are insecure about their own culture. So they have to come up with ridiculous lies like cow urine cures cancer, so they can say India is better than America.

I would encourage people who are TCM practitioners to adopt modern evidence based trials to reform the TCM industry.
 
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Deleted member 15887

Guest
TCM is good for psychological treatment and unwinding. But true science- and technology-based medicine and healthcare should stay as China's priority!
 

Shaolian

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm not knowledgeable in TCM in any form, but how is the practice regulated in China itself? Sometimes I do notice there are TCM departments in a regular hospital or medical centre. In fact, here in Malaysia there are also TCM departments, like acupuncture, in some of our private hospitals as well, and those are reputable hospitals themselves.

I'm a firm believer in the scientific procedure, and I hope that any promising TCM can be ultimately vindicated by true science. Is the current situation regarding TCM such that many of their medicines do work from experiences (to an extent), and due to limitations of modern science to adequately validate those methods, that governments do allow such practises (with heavy regulations)?

Hopefully, someday traditional medicines that work can be fully integrated through rigorous scientific verification, to have a unified medical theory.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
My friend's wife had this infection in the nerves in her face so literally half her face was paralyzed and her eye lid was wide open where she would have to tape her eye lid shut so it didn't dry out. The doctor she went to told her that it'll eventually go away back to normal but it would take around six weeks. Someone recommended she go to San Francisco Chinatown and see a Chinese medicine doctor. She came back with a bag full of assorted ingredients including some dried centipedes and was told to boil it and make a tea to drink. Her condition was over in less than two weeks. I was never big on Chinese medicine but some of the stuff works. One of the worst parts of getting sick is the sore throat. I can't get a good sleep with a sore throat and is usually the first sign that happens before you really get sick. My mother when I was a kid would put a strip of Chinese medicine tape on the back of my neck and if it was done before I went to sleep at night, I would feel a turnaround when I woke up in the morning. If I feel a itch in my throat, I slap on a strip and it goes away. The Western remedies only numb your throat until it heals on its own. This actually heals it.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
My friend's wife had this infection in the nerves in her face so literally half her face was paralyzed and her eye lid was wide open where she would have to tape her eye lid shut so it didn't dry out. The doctor she went to told her that it'll eventually go away back to normal but it would take around six weeks. Someone recommended she go to San Francisco Chinatown and see a Chinese medicine doctor. She came back with a bag full of assorted ingredients including some dried centipedes and was told to boil it and make a tea to drink. Her condition was over in less than two weeks. I was never big on Chinese medicine but some of the stuff works. One of the worst parts of getting sick is the sore throat. I can't get a good sleep with a sore throat and is usually the first sign that happens before you really get sick. My mother when I was a kid would put a strip of Chinese medicine tape on the back of my neck and if it was done before I went to sleep at night, I would feel a turnaround when I woke up in the morning. If I feel a itch in my throat, I slap on a strip and it goes away. The Western remedies only numb your throat until it heals on its own. This actually heals it.

I think there is merit behind some of these treatments. But my issue with it, is the TCM practitioners don't take the time or rigor to investigate why that bag of herbs cured x ailment and understand the active ingredients. Instead, its all anedoctal.

That's why TCM is so incredibly inconsistent, because there is no rigor or trials or data. Sure that bag of herbs may have reduced the infection. Or it maybe the infection would have gone away anyways without taking that bag of herbs. How can anyone know without running an experiment using a control group?

My point is that these treatment may very well have merit. It's just that there is no rigor or methodology in verifying there effectiveness. A lot of scientific discoveries are made accidentally thru trial and error. TCM has the discovery trial and error part, but lack the validation or verification part.

Kind of like Trump promoting hydroxycloriquine or other quack cures. TCM is more sophisticated, but really not all that much.
 
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free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm not knowledgeable in TCM in any form, but how is the practice regulated in China itself? Sometimes I do notice there are TCM departments in a regular hospital or medical centre. In fact, here in Malaysia there are also TCM departments, like acupuncture, in some of our private hospitals as well, and those are reputable hospitals themselves.

I'm a firm believer in the scientific procedure, and I hope that any promising TCM can be ultimately vindicated by true science. Is the current situation regarding TCM such that many of their medicines do work from experiences (to an extent), and due to limitations of modern science to adequately validate those methods, that governments do allow such practises (with heavy regulations)?

Hopefully, someday traditional medicines that work can be fully integrated through rigorous scientific verification, to have a unified medical theory.

I definitely think are merits to traditional medicine. The problem is the second part. Which is no trials no data no rigor. Most of TCM treatment is inconsistent and based on personal experiences or anecdotal examples or intuition or even superstition. Which I think is a bad mentality to have. The government doesnt really regulate TCM and promotes it for nationalism.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I definitely think are merits to traditional medicine. The problem is the second part. Which is no trials no data no rigor. Most of TCM treatment is inconsistent and based on personal experiences or anecdotal examples or intuition or even superstition. Which I think is a bad mentality to have. The government doesnt really regulate TCM and promotes it for nationalism.

Can you bring up some actual examples instead of making these vague claims? I'm not aware of anything the government has promoted that would count as pseudoscience.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Can you bring up some actual examples instead of making these vague claims? I'm not aware of anything the government has promoted that would count as pseudoscience.
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Lol. By default TCM is pseudo science because real science allows for differing hypothesis and opinions. TCM does not follow the rigor of building a hypothesis, running experiment and collecting data. I agree a lot with Xi, but he should stay with politics and not let his own personal belief interfere with science. This is the same as Trump promoting quack cures for COVId. And we all know how that turned out
 

solarz

Brigadier
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Lol. By default TCM is pseudo science because real science allows for differing hypothesis and opinions. TCM does not follow the rigor of building a hypothesis, running experiment and collecting data. I agree a lot with Xi, but he should stay with politics and not let his own personal belief interfere with science. This is the same as Trump promoting quack cures for COVId. And we all know how that turned out

Well that there is your problem: you're using a Western source to form your opinion.

Let's read it shall we?

A notice published by health authorities called for public submissions on the draft, which would ban any individual or organisation from making false or exaggerated claims about traditional Chinese medicine, or using it for illegitimate interests or to damage public interest.

It would potentially lead to the criminal prosecution of people who criticise traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) or “cause trouble or disturb public order” by breaching the law.

Seriously, how did the first paragraph lead to the second?

That entire article is a piece of garbage.
 
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