Russia Vs Georgia..a widening crisis!


Mr T

Senior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Why should Russia stop now? so that it can see Georgia fast tracked into NATO? Thats just crazy logic.
It's also equally crazy to invade an independent nation, which is recognises as being independent, and occupy it. If Russia wants another Cold War, fine - but that's what occupation and/or annexation would mean. Zero chance of co-operation with Europe in the future over almost anything, a fast-track for Ukraine into NATO and chances are even more neutral neighbours would move away from Russia lest they be absorbed too over some pretext.
 

flyzies

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

It's also equally crazy to invade an independent nation, which is recognises as being independent, and occupy it.
I know this has nothing to do with this specifically, but that's exactly what US did and is still doing to Iraq. If its not crazy for US, why would it be for Russia?

If Russia wants another Cold War, fine - but that's what occupation and/or annexation would mean. Zero chance of co-operation with Europe in the future over almost anything, a fast-track for Ukraine into NATO and chances are even more neutral neighbours would move away from Russia lest they be absorbed too over some pretext.
Seriously doubt it will be "ZERO". Some things Europe must cooperate with Russia on in world of today; biggest one being energy.
After this, i doubt NATO would fast track Ukraine into joining...seeing as what trying to fast track Georgia is like...if anything, I think this should deter NATO from allowing Ukraine to join in the short term.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

I know this has nothing to do with this specifically, but that's exactly what US did and is still doing to Iraq. If its not crazy for US, why would it be for Russia?
Because Iraq had been a regional aggressor for many years, was in violation of UN sanctions and had annoyed just about everyone, even if some countries didn't want a war. How can you equate Georgia to any of that?

Seriously doubt it will be "ZERO". Some things Europe must cooperate with Russia on in world of today; biggest one being energy.
Only for Russia to turn around at some point and say "hey, now I can really screw you over, bend down and drop your pants - I give the orders now"? At the least Russia would only be offered tough deals when previously it could have got ones with much better terms.

After this, i doubt NATO would fast track Ukraine into joining...seeing as what trying to fast track Georgia is like...if anything, I think this should deter NATO from allowing Ukraine to join in the short term.
This happened precisely because NATO dithered over letting Georgia join. There was no fast-tracking with Georgia, just a statement that it and Ukraine could join at some point. If Gerogia was occupied and countries like Germany were able to block Ukrainian membership moving forward, it would signal that NATO now takes its orders from Moscow. Clearly the majority couldn't stand for that.

Besides, Russia couldn't push Ukraine around that easily.
 
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utelore

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

This would seem by no means over. Huge buildup of Georgian forces in Gori and reserve and volunteer units are streaming in from across the country after Russia not so limited attacks on Georgian city's. Gori is on fire and Ponti is destroyed/Oil Terminal storage and port.

Russia could of focused on re-taking ossetia but for some reason it decided to attack all major Georgian Cities and airbases. The real problem was its attack on the OIL installations and the destruction of the Ponti facilities.

On another point what Russia did in 92 when ethnic Georgians were the majority in both abkaz and ossetia but with the help of russian volunteers and N Ossetian volunteers ethnically cleansed 290,000 Georgians from both areas. This was wrong and the fact that Russia is taking what parts of Georgia it wants is also wrong. Black and White..period...SOOOO whats next Kazakhstan or Odessa Ukraine? Russia just takes what it wants. No No only the united states is allowed to do that....now everyone laugh at my paragraph joke....This is the Human condition...we like to hurt and kill eachother...were one nasty NO GOOD low down specie's cheers ute.

PS seeing that most of you knowing it or not love this stuff as war is sweet to those who have not tasted it. wouldn't it be interesting for the Ukraine to form a defense pact with Georgia and go at it with the reds.
 
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flyzies

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Because Iraq had been a regional aggressor for many years, was in violation of UN sanctions and had annoyed just about everyone, even if some countries didn't want a war. How can you equate Georgia to any of that?
Im not equating anything to anything, hence my "nothing to do with this" point. I was merely responding to your "be crazy to invade a independent nation" statement.

Only for Russia to turn around at some point and say "hey, now I can really screw you over, bend down and drop your pants - I give the orders now"? At the least Russia would only be offered tough deals when previously it could have got ones with much better terms.
That's better than not getting any energy at all. And admit it, Russia has total upper hand when negotiating all energy contracts with Europe now and for the foreseeable future.

This happened precisely because NATO dithered over letting Georgia join. There was no fast-tracking with Georgia, just a statement that it and Ukraine could join at some point. If Gerogia was occupied and countries like Germany were able to block Ukrainian membership moving forward, it would signal that NATO now takes its orders from Moscow. Clearly the majority couldn't stand for that.

Besides, Russia couldn't push Ukraine around that easily.
Time will tell on this one...
 

flyzies

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

wouldn't it be interesting for the Ukraine to form a defense pact with Georgia and go at it with the reds.
No it wouldnt. Theres no need for this to go any further than it already has, by that i mean no need for it to spread into a regional war.
And Russia hasnt been "red" since USSR fell...lose the cold war mentality.
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

According to BBC. Two front war. The seperatists are better armed and trained.

In another development, separatists in Abkhazia, Georgia's other breakaway region, said they say had launched air and artillery strikes on Georgian forces in the Kodori Gorge.
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Mr T

Senior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

I was merely responding to your "be crazy to invade a independent nation" statement.
As I explained, they're too different situations - by "responding" you were attempting to compare regardless of what you say.

That's better than not getting any energy at all. And admit it, Russia has total upper hand when negotiating all energy contracts with Europe now and for the foreseeable future.
Russia has to sell to someone, so it cannot say "take these unreasonable terms or you get nothing". It's economy is supported by energy sales. Even China could not take on all of Europe's consumption, and if it did it would screw Russia over prices because it would be in the stronger position.

Then there are the pipelines that Russia wants to buy. If it was difficult before to do that it would be impossible if it occupied Georgia.
 

alopes

Junior Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

This would seem by no means over. Huge buildup of Georgian forces in Gori and reserve and volunteer units are streaming in from across the country after Russia not so limited attacks on Georgian city's. Gori is on fire and Ponti is destroyed/Oil Terminal storage and port.

Russia could of focused on re-taking ossetia but for some reason it decided to attack all major Georgian Cities and airbases. The real problem was its attack on the OIL installations and the destruction of the Ponti facilities.

On another point what Russia did in 92 when ethnic Georgians were the majority in both abkaz and ossetia but with the help of russian volunteers and N Ossetian volunteers ethnically cleansed 290,000 Georgians from both areas. This was wrong and the fact that Russia is taking what parts of Georgia it wants is also wrong. Black and White..period...SOOOO whats next Kazakhstan or Odessa Ukraine? Russia just takes what it wants. No No only the united states is allowed to do that....now everyone laugh at my paragraph joke....This is the Human condition...we like to hurt and kill eachother...were one nasty NO GOOD low down specie's cheers ute.

PS seeing that most of you knowing it or not love this stuff as war is sweet to those who have not tasted it. wouldn't it be interesting for the Ukraine to form a defense pact with Georgia and go at it with the reds.
Europe had infights for centuries to define the borders of their countries, and, one of these wars, was world war II. Still today there are calls for independence in spain and, in the recent past, for North Ireland.
USA also had a history of wars to form their current federal territory.
So, the problem,that i see here, is the demonization tatic used against Russia when some European media analysts talk about the post Soviet Union wars for the definition of the current borders.

In this current war, the news media from Europe and their government simply ignore the fact that Georgian forces were bombarding and killing
civilians in the South Ossetian capital.

And, the killing of civilians was, just, the justification for Europe to support Bosnia against Serbs and Kosova against Serbs.

NATO bombarded Belgrad city, with the consequent death of Serb civilians, to make Serbia surrender to Europe and let Kosova turn independent.

Now, that Russia is bombarding Gorgian cities in response to Georgia bombarding of civilians in South Ossetia, the
news media are all again talking about Russia aggression.

How is it that Kosova has a right to human rights and South Ossetians don´t have.

Georgia is the starter of the war and is attacking South Ossetia, but the demonization of Russia keeps coming from the news media from Europe with two blind eyes about South Ossetian civilians.
 
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Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: Georgia Attacks South Ossetia, War With Russia Looms

Ok time to consentrate on the military side of this conflict, not wheter big bad russia is wrong by attacking independent nation or little and shimmy Georgia by obressing its ethic minorities

Gollevainen
Supermod
 

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