Risk of Natural disasters vs Military facilities


TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
@Jura , @Air Force Brat @Timmymagic
And @TerraN_EmpirE (IE myself)
Have gotten in to a bit of a back and forth because of the effects of Hurricane Michael that just destroyed Tyndall Airforce base on the Florida Panhandle. This debate however is OT to the Aircraft carriers III thread. So I ask the moderators to spin it off here. Some of Those posts can be found here. Others in the US military news and F22 threads.

This is not a unique occurrence as can be pointed out with the loss of military aircraft by the JSDF in The 2011 Tsunami.
now this:
F-22s, QF-16 likely damaged after Tyndall hangars hit by hurricane
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not sure why they just didn't fly them off

recalled Oct 8, 2016
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as I write the USAF Generals are working on how to 'make Tyndall great again', I guess, so let's wait for the next hurricane

I'm telling you it's slovenliness to house Raptors (which are supposed to be one of the most valuable USAF assets) that way, but who'd listen to an Internet kibitzer LOL
I find your response is best countered by your own response
your sentence:
sounds like spin to me
Brat brought American politics in better or worse. However Fact is it was the previous administration "Hoped and Changed" things in 2012 when they consolidated operations to Tyndall. But I am not looking to place Blame unlike you seem to.
Tyndall had no history of being a Hurricane magnet since it's opening in 1941! Calling it a Slovenliness Risk is ungrounded as any air base along the Gulf and Eastern Atlantic coast line has a potential for being struck by a Huricaine. Same for any Army, Navy or Marines facilities. The same I might add for any Pacific coastal base with regards to Typhoons save perhaps for Alaska but there severe earth quakes are a reality.
Heck the PRC reclaimed bases Could be wiped out by a visious Typhoons season or strong Tsunami.

Military bases are regularly struck by the risk of weather but they have to operate. It's a calculated risk.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
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And a few from the F22 thread.
kinda ironic
May 28, 2018
:
as now
F-22s, QF-16 likely damaged after Tyndall hangars hit by hurricane
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Damaged is probably an understatement.

Tyndall couldn't have been more of the target of Michael than if someone had made a weather controlling weapon.
Today at 9:13 PM

then was unaware of Rogoway's blog post
Tyndall Air Force Base In Ruins After Michael, Fighter Jets Seen Inside Roofless Hangars
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this is [redacted] unbelievable, the way how the USAF handles Raptors, little to no upgrades, now [redacted] this
My bet is a number of them were being worked on and had been disassembled enough they couldn't get them back together and/or were waiting for parts.

Now as to why they don't have hardened hangars in a hurricane zone, that...I cannot fathom. Esp for the base that has ltierally irreplaceable aircraft in it.
It ain't pretty, folks:

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The USAF flew every fighter worthy of flight out of the base when they could. However not all were flight worthy.

Social media reports indicate at least 4 Raptors were hangered. 3 in a hanger that took substantial damage. The fourth apparently took less.
They were. However the storm was more powerful than expected, it was a absolute direct hit with the Eye of the storm rolling over the base. The storm also had a slow speed of advance so it stayed longer and did more damage.
Reliable sources are telling me there were 12 raptors that could not be flown out.

One they tried to fly out, but aborted.

Most of the others were in various states of torn apart for maintenance.

That same set of sources is stating there are several that are irreparably damaged.
Well, lets hope your reliable sources are mistaken my friend, otherwise I'm going to be redoubling my efforts to restore the F-22 to serial production!

I do hope your wrong friend, that would be sad news indeed....
I hope he's wrong, too. However, 90% of the time, he isn't when it comes to American aircraft news and programs.

Rather then the Raptor coming back into production, far more likely, the PCA/NGAD will get accelerated by a couple years.
Friday at 10:22 PM
now Rogoway 'seeks to find the middle ground' with
Setting The Record Straight On Why Fighter Jets Can't All Simply Fly Away To Escape Storms
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and I want to believe the Pentagon just didn't want to write off some trashy copies of Raptors this way
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
And a few from the F22 thread.
Heh!, Heh!, Heh!, every MILITARY AIRCRAFT is a POLITICAL BIRD! Gentlemen, Politics is simply the business of state and foreign relations, unlike many here, its NOT a dirty word....now the decision to cap the Raptor at 187 birds has been shown to be, as I "WARNED", the stoopidest of the stooid,
but hey, that decision was well underway before BHO regime came to power, that was a result of George Bush's C team players, Cheney and Rumsfeld, led by Robert Gates, who also was Sec Def for BHO, who also listened to Robert Gates sorry advice, LOL...

America has free and clear elections every two years for Congress, Every four years for President, and every six years for Senators, while it might be good for the Republic?? the sad side effect, like "chemo therapy" is that the US Military functions/doesn't function in fits and starts, sad but that's our present reality??



Now that wasn't always the dire straight it presents itself as today?, because Democrats and Republicans both loved the country and wanted to defend it,, that's not necessarily the priority it should be now, as some folks have no clue that these beautiful birds are an absolute necessity to maintaining our, and many of our friends sovereignty.

So that brings us to our present "nail biter", wondering just exactly how many F-22's may have bitten the dust at Tyndall AFB?

So thank you Terran, for moving our discussion to a more appropriate venue, and as we hold our breath, we will know possibly as soon as tomorrow morning or at least by tomorrow evenings news cycle what the "score" is, no promises, but a likelihood of some hard numbers or at least hard facts.....

Stephan Losey's article in Air Force Times states that the F-22's, should be largely repairable, but expensive!:cool: best "news" I've heard all day, now where's my checkbook???
 
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Jura

General
LOL! let me see, in
#1
you pulled the whole Yesterday at 5:14 PM

"as I write the USAF Generals are working on how to 'make Tyndall great again', I guess, so let's wait for the next hurricane

I'm telling you it's slovenliness to house Raptors (which are supposed to be one of the most valuable USAF assets) that way, but who'd listen to an Internet kibitzer LOL"

then you said "I find your response is best countered by your own response"

I find your response is best countered by your own response
and pulled this part of Yesterday at 10:24 AM
:
"your sentence:
sounds like spin to me"

I'll tell you a secret now LOL when people cut my posts, I look at what they left out, so

your sentence:
sounds like spin to me, as what I meant Yesterday at 11:19 AM
was the USAF saying how things are great until they wasn't
Yesterday at 10:24 AM "... as what I meant Yesterday at 11:19 AM was the USAF saying how things are great until they wasn't"

that Yesterday at 11:19 AM link is:
Saturday at 11:19 AM
the rubble shown after 02:30 in
looks like what they gloated about May 28, 2018
now noticed (through Rogoway's story
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) the tweet
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Nice work mil/Civ/contractors getting Team Tyndall “Alberto Ready”!!!


now, if you concluded I was spinning (did you?), it'd be OK, of course

let's wait and see what the Pentagon announces

EDIT I think I've made my position clear
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
LOL! let me see, in
#1
you pulled the whole Yesterday at 5:14 PM

"as I write the USAF Generals are working on how to 'make Tyndall great again', I guess, so let's wait for the next hurricane

I'm telling you it's slovenliness to house Raptors (which are supposed to be one of the most valuable USAF assets) that way, but who'd listen to an Internet kibitzer LOL"

then you said "I find your response is best countered by your own response"



and pulled this part of Yesterday at 10:24 AM
:
"your sentence:
sounds like spin to me"

I'll tell you a secret now LOL when people cut my posts, I look at what they left out, so



Yesterday at 10:24 AM "... as what I meant Yesterday at 11:19 AM was the USAF saying how things are great until they wasn't"

that Yesterday at 11:19 AM link is:
Saturday at 11:19 AM


now, if you concluded I was spinning (did you?), it'd be OK, of course

let's wait and see what the Pentagon announces

EDIT I think I've made my position clear[/QUOTE


It is easy to criticize the US?? if we were to insult your native country?, its Air Force Leaders, Pilots and Maintainer's,, but I won't, since Poland is one of our closest NATO allies,,, they believe in the USA, you'd be a lot happier if you did too??

Oh, and we have lots and lots of "toilet paper", I learned today, on one of our newest threads, that you might be caught off guard without any??? if you were to visit a certain large country???

Yep, when the "KRAP" gets too deep? we have hip boots and lots of "Charmin"!

anyway, things are looking up for those F-22's, most were in the Big Hangar which is indeed "hardened", when you take a direct hit from a Cat 4 with sustained winds of 155 MPH, the fact that they are still in the hangar is pretty damned amazing!

finally "slovenliness"??? that hurricane blew up out of nothing to a CAT 4, due diligence to protect the aircraft that where in heavy maintenance/donor aircraft, appears to have saved all of those aircraft, they will need repairs, but those hangars took a beating, that any aircraft survived is indeed miraculous.... God Bless America!
 

Jura

General
[earlier]
thought you'd also handle
#1147 anzha, Tuesday at 8:27 PM
You cracked me up with the shame on you bit.

Generals are human. Humans often CYA. Brass has been busted for things in the US before and relatively recently. Admittedly, it was the Navy, but the whole Fat Leonard scandal is a good example. Or should we also mention the outright bribery Boeing pulled in the first round of the tanker competition saga? People went to jail for that. Or Gen Westmoreland, back in the day...or a few more recently.

People are fallible. Including the American military brass. The best way to keep them honest is to not just accept what they say.
 

Jura

General
I'm waiting on the final verdict on those Raptor's, LOL! you're right of course, Native American's have a pithy saying,, "Never judge a man, until you've walked a mile in his moccasin's!"
just one more thing now, which is "slovenliness" Sunday at 5:14 PM
as I write the USAF Generals are working on how to 'make Tyndall great again', I guess, so let's wait for the next hurricane

I'm telling you it's slovenliness to house Raptors (which are supposed to be one of the most valuable USAF assets) that way, but who'd listen to an Internet kibitzer LOL
;
I wrote on the assumption there were no Category-5-proof shelters at Tyndall BUT Raptors were stationed there anyway AND would be again; this, to me, is slovenliness, yes

(it appears you referred to something else Yesterday at 6:53 AM:
"finally "slovenliness"??? that hurricane blew up out of nothing to a CAT 4, due diligence to protect the aircraft that where in heavy maintenance/donor aircraft, appears to have saved all of those aircraft, they will need repairs, but those hangars took a beating, that any aircraft survived is indeed miraculous")
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
um. How am I involved in this between you two?!

:)

Speaking of US military (almost) brass, she was only a US Navy Captain, but she is charged with corruption yesterday for steering contracts to a company she owns. No link because that would lead to thread drift, but the point being is watching the watchers is required.
He's
just one more thing now, which is "slovenliness" Sunday at 5:14 PM
;
I wrote on the assumption there were no Category-5-proof shelters at Tyndall BUT Raptors were stationed there anyway AND would be again; this, to me, is slovenliness, yes

(it appears you referred to something else Yesterday at 6:53 AM:
"finally "slovenliness"??? that hurricane blew up out of nothing to a CAT 4, due diligence to protect the aircraft that where in heavy maintenance/donor aircraft, appears to have saved all of those aircraft, they will need repairs, but those hangars took a beating, that any aircraft survived is indeed miraculous")

So, you two characters obviously know more than the US Military about how to conduct operations on the Florida Panhandle?? Tyndall AFB is headquarters for the 325 Fighter Wing, which includes an F-22 Fighter Squadron and an F-22 Training Squadron? Tyndall is home to those operations because of its proximity to a very large active live weapons range and excellent flying weather... In fact this summer while on vacation in Panama City Beach, I observed several F-22 two ships flying down the beach.. its a beautiful place.

However Tyndall AFB was a direct hit by Hurricane Michael, as each of you well know, F-22 availability is a huge problem at present, with around 50% availability at any given time, in fact General Mattis is so pissed, and has issued orders across the board for ALL Fighter Aircraft availability to be increased to at least 80%....

That's NEVER going to happen for the F-22, as strong as President Trumps response has been to rectify 8 years of BHO's shameful disdain and neglect, and GWB's lack of money to maintain those airplanes, they have ALL been "beat on", and are spread thin to cover operational demands.... to add perspective to that picture, each of those early airplanes are basically "hand built", requiring a great deal of fabrication and fitting to maintain the F-22's "best on the planet" L/O characteristics?

As a result of living in a "real world" where 9/10s of the population and our political leadership don't give a rat's ass about defense, and certainly only support our military grudgingly, although professing great knowledge and empathy for the US Military?? they love to criticize and complain, sadly many of our lower echelon military fall into that same category? "yes, the troops have always loved to bitch and moan!"

So having two dozen F-22's left behind in our "hardened hangars" is a sad fact of life?? its NOT about poor leadership or maintenance, its about doing the impossible with damn near nothing, the F-22 is now an "old airplane", it needs lots and lots of love and money,,, thank God the President and Gen Mattis are making that a priority, but years and years of conscious and intentional neglect by politicians who have to "give away money to be re-elected", have hurt our best efforts to maintain the world's best fighter aircraft.....

so cheap shots, from individuals who should be very well aware of the political reality, and the money required to "maintain readiness" as well as the consequences of NOT being ready?? and who directly benefit, and are no doubt safer with the US Military keeping you safe? and doing their "damndest" to protect your freedoms,,, well, that doesn't sit well with me, in fact it "pisses me off", A LOT!

I get my checkbook out, twice or three times a year and pay my taxes,,,,, I want my money spent supporting and maintaining the best and most honorable military on the Planet?? and if you're not paying taxes to the US GOVT, or even if you are?? what you ought to be doing? is supporting and encouraging our members of congress and senate to support the President, as he works very hard to bring this aircraft, and this military "back from the brink".... its going to take a hell of a lot of hard work and money to accomplish this task??

and if you have the honor of being able to vote, you ought to support the team that has put more into defending this country, and making her safe than any other team in the last 50-60 years,,, that gentlemen, is what we ought to be doing.

and Tyndall AFB, will be rebuilt, and those Raptor's will be returned to flight status, ASAP, that is whats going to happen next. God Bless you, God Bless the US Military, and God Bless the USA!

and yes Gentlemen, there will no doubt be another Hurricane, and the price paid, and lessons learned will in the short term be reminders, to those who really care, of what it takes to keep this beautiful land free!

AFB
 

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