Plan Type 095/096 Nuclear Submarine Thread

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
Hendrik please cut the crap with these silly equations

You have clearly no idea what you are talking about

You have conveniently missed temperature, salinity , resistance and dielectric constant

I should know I have a PhD in the subject

Stick to military updates
Now can you offer better alternative Phd? You don't have a clue what you are talking about Phd in what massage parlor ?
Eveybody can say you have Phd in forum you *^^AY
Youare very annoying smart alec that should be banned long time ago
I never report a member but for you I make exception for you but you are offensive
For your information it does consider salinity becasue they use specific gravity for saltwater That prove that you don't know a sh#$% about equation bogus Phd
Don't even know how to read equation Phd
Read and think before you open your mouth
 
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asif iqbal

Brigadier
Here we go more uneducated Chinese fan boys wet dreaming again

And many members here know me personally

Chinese fan boy trying to be clever with equations

I need to prove to you ? No you are nothing to me
 
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Lethe

Senior Member

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
Since when is USN not obsessed with speed? The Los Angeles class boats are capable of 35 knots, and I haven't seen anything to suggest the Virginias are any slower.

Speed was one of Admiral Rickover's obsessions in creating the nuclear submarine force: see pages 17-52 here: https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2013/08/f2/DuncanRickoverandtheNuclearNavyComplete.pdf
I got the number from the official statement here
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_print.asp?cid=4100&tid=100&ct=4&page=1
Whether they can go 35 knots is up to speculation, but I won't use it to make my discussion.
General Characteristics, Los Angeles Class
Builder: Newport News Shipbuilding Co.; General Dynamics Electric Boat Division
Date Deployed: Nov. 13, 1976 (USS Los Angeles)
Propulsion: One nuclear reactor, one shaft
Length: 360 feet (109.73 meters)
Beam: 33 feet (10.06 meters)
Displacement: Approximately 6,900 tons (7011 metric tons) submerged
Speed: 25+ knots (28+ miles per hour, 46.3 +kph)
Crew: 16 Officers; 127 Enlisted
Armament: Tomahawk missiles, VLS tubes (SSN 719 and later), MK48 torpedoes, four torpedo tubes
and

General Characteristics, Virginia Class
Builder: General Dynamics Electric Boat Division and Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc. - Newport News Shipbuilding
Date Deployed: USS Virginia commissioned Oct. 3, 2004
Propulsion: One nuclear reactor, one shaft
Length: 377 feet (114.8 meters)
Beam: 34 feet (10.36 meters)
Displacement: Approximately 7,800 tons (7,925 metric tons) submerged
Speed: 25+ knots (28+ miles per hour, 46.3+ kph)
Crew: 132: 15 officers; 117 enlisted
Armament: Tomahawk missiles, twelve VLS tubes (SSNs 774-783) or two VPTs (SSNs 784 and beyond), MK48 ADCAP torpedoes, four torpedo tubes.
 

Lethe

Senior Member
The Wikipedia specs are just placeholders for classified information, as with diving depth and F-22's "Mach 1.7+".

And regardless of whether the top speed of an LA-class boat is 35 knots or 33 knots (the other figure commonly bandied about), it was unquestionably designed with speed as top-line priority, even at the expense of diving depth and weapons load.

There is some great discussion of the 688 and its design compromises here: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/2gby88/russian_k329_severodvinsk_a_yasenclass_nuclear/ckhynw2/?context=3
 
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Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
Via cirr from SCMP any comment I don;t see why not It is foregone conclusion that eventually A1 is going to be used in military
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2131127/chinas-plan-use-artificial-intelligence-boost-thinking-skills
China’s plan to use artificial intelligence to boost the thinking skills of nuclear submarine commanders
Equipping nuclear submarines with AI would give China an upper hand in undersea battles while pushing applications of the technology to a new level


China is working to update the rugged old computer systems on nuclear submarines with artificial intelligence to enhance the potential thinking skills of commanding officers, a senior scientist involved with the programme told the South China Morning Post.

A submarine with AI-augmented brainpower not only would give China’s large navy an upper hand in battle under the world’s oceans but would push applications of AI technology to a new level, according to the researcher, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the project’s sensitivity.

“Though a submarine has enormous power of destruction, its brain is actually quite small,” the researcher said.

While a nuclear submarine depends on the skill, experience and efficiency of its crew to operate effectively, the demands of modern warfare could introduce variables that would cause even the smoothest-run operation to come unglued.

For instance, if the 100 to 300 people in the sub’s crew were forced to remain together in their canister in deep, dark water for months, the rising stress level could affect the commanding officers’ decision-making powers, even leading to bad judgment.

An AI decision-support system with “its own thoughts” would reduce the commanding officers’ workload and mental burden, according to the researcher.



The possibility of AI having a prominent role in nuclear submarines – through the work of Chinese scientists – is a milestone both for China and the technology.

Since the first nuclear submarines appeared in the early 1950s, produced by the US, they have ranked among the most sophisticated war machines. It can take as long as two decades for a nuclear sub to progress from an idea on a blueprint to the finished product, sliding down a slipway.

But the subs’ computer brains have generally been out of sync with their state-of-the-art image.

First, the technology in most submarine computers tends to predate the vessel’s commissioning. Furthermore, military-grade electronic components have required extensive battle-hardening to withstand shocks, heat or electromagnetic disturbance, sacrificing speed for reliability.

Up till now, the “thinking” function on a nuclear sub, including interpreting and answering signals picked up by sonar, a system for detecting objects under water by emitting sound pulses, has been handled almost exclusively by human naval personnel, not by machines.


Now, through AI technology, a convolutional neural network undergirds so-called machine learning. This structure underpins a decision support system that can acquire knowledge, improve skills and develop new strategy without human intervention.

By mimicking the workings of the human brain, the system can process a large amount of data. On a nuclear submarine, data could come from the Chinese navy’s rapidly increasing observation networks, the submarine’s own sensors or daily interactions with the crew.

An AI assistant could support commanding officers by assessing the battlefield environment, providing insight into how levels of saline in the ocean and water temperature might affect the accuracy of sonar systems.

It also could recognise and flag threats from an enemy faster and more accurately than human operators.

An AI assist also could help commanding officers estimate the risks and benefits of certain combat manoeuvres, even suggesting moves not considered by the vessel’s captain.

China’s military wants the new AI technology to deliver on certain basic demands, according to the researcher.

A priority is ensuring the system can follow and understand sophisticated, ever-changing underwater operations. It also must have a simple structure to reduce its risk of failure. And it must be compact and compatible with subs’ existing computer systems.

“It is like putting an elephant into a shoebox,” said the researcher when asked about the challenge of the project.

‘It is not science fiction’: AI experts warn of new global arms race for killer robots, call for ban

“What the military cares most about is not fancy features. What they care most is the thing does not screw up amid the heat of a battle.”

The military currently has no plan to reduce the size of submarine crews when the AI technology is ready for deployment. “There must be a human hand on every critical post. This is for safety redundancy,” the researcher said.

Beijing, which takes the AI submarine programme very seriously, is ploughing abundant resources into the undertaking, according to the researcher.

China’s move highlights the spectre of a widening AI technology gap. The existence of the AI sub tech divide was underscored by the comment of a US military systems executive taking part in a survey last year by the US Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency on “disruptive technologies” that a hostile country could use against Americans.

Joe Marino, CEO of Rite-Solutions, a technical company supporting the US Naval Undersea System Command, touted the value of using AI to enhance submarine commanding officers’ decision-making powers.

“[Without matching other countries’ advances in AI submarine technology] our CO (commanding officers) would be fighting an opponent who could make faster, more informed and better decisions,” Marino wrote in an article on the company’s website.

“Combined with undersea technology advancements by near-peer competitors such as Russia and China in areas such as stealth, sensors, weapons, this ‘cognitive advantage’ could threaten US undersea dominance,” he wrote.

Marino urged the US navy to embrace AI and challenge America’s defence industry to investigate the possible application of the technology on US submarines.

Zhu Min, a researcher at the Institute of Acoustics with the Chinese Academy of Sciences and a lead scientist in China’s deep water exploration programme, said AI has been a fashionable word in China’s submarine research community for the past couple of years.

“In the past, the technology was too distant from application, but recently a lot of progress has been achieved,” he said. “There seems to be hope around the corner.”

Where traditional computer programs on submarines have needed “step-by-step” human guidance, AI has the potential to “change the game under the sea”, Zhu said.

China enlists top scientists in mission to become military tech superpower

AI algorithms usually run on large, state-of-the-art computers, requiring intensive calculation to process a huge amount of data.
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
(cont)
Recent technical advancements, however, have suggested it may be possible for these algorithms – translated in layman’s terms as rules for solving a problem in a finite number of steps – to be executed on small machines.

AlphaGo, a computer program that plays the board game Go, developed by Google’s Deep Mind, for instance, initially required several powerful computers. After two years it achieved much higher performance with only a tenth of the calculating hardware.

AlphaGo Zero, the newest version of the program, no longer needs to learn how to play the game better from a human player. It can teach itself to be a better player without human help.

Zhu said using AI on a strategic weaponry platform such as a nuclear submarine would be a natural next step for the evolving technology. Letting it seek new knowledge without restraint, however, could lead to unexpected consequences.

If the system started to have its own way of thinking, “we may have a runaway submarine with enough nuclear arsenals to destroy a continent,” he said, describing what sounded like the plot of a science-fiction film or novel.

“This is definitely a risk the authorities should consider when introducing AI to a sub.”

Deng Zhidong, a computer science professor and AI scholar at Beijing’s Tsinghua University, said the risk of AI-based machines’ rebelling against human society did not exist – at least for the foreseeable future.

“An AI-powered machine is still a machine. It does not have a life,” he said.

An AI system on a submarine, though sophisticated, in many ways would be similar to self-driving technology on some cars, Deng said.

“You can shut it down and shift to manual any time. It will be the same on a nuclear submarine.”

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...artificial-intelligence-boost-thinking-skills

AI is not replacing humans, its merely supplementing some of the work load and aid in better decision making.

AI will be the biggest determinate for the outcome of future warfare (when there are comparable weapons platforms available). Imagine having two bots fight against each other in a RTS game, one is set at "easy" the other at "hard", the results would be lopsided towards the more advanced AI.

Results of wars could possibly be already determined through simulation. With adequate data collection of opposition forces, a military can simulate thousands or even millions of wars before they happen and sharpen the reaction time of the command structure. In addition new weapons platforms can be developed according to simulation results even when there is lack of real combat experience. Data collection, Hardware (military assets, supercomputers), Software (AI).
 
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