PLAN Type 075 LHD discussion

asif iqbal

Brigadier
so only 4 landing spots with 3 x LCAC

strange configuration

I dont think they should have added a well deck, they are trying to do too much with too little

especially true since LCAC programme is a dead end and they never really fulfilled the LPD units with them

this means 3 x LHD need 9 x LCAC

plus 8 x LPD need 32 x LCAC

so thats 41 x LCAC but they would need more to ensure all are filled

dont think we will ever see that
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
The well dock would completely unnecessary for something intended for purely an ASW escort carrier, too.
if you are replying to #1057, how would you stop and catch pirates on a speed boat with hostages? Helicopter can not shoot them, marines can not land on them. On the other hand, hovercraft launched from the well deck can do that job well with much higher speed than the speed boat pirates use, and it can carry enough special forces.

P.S. PLAN does not necessarily build their ships exactly according to USN practice, there may never be a one to one mapping of ship types. I dare to say there won't be PLAN LHA (without well deck) ever.
 

Bltizo

Moderator
Staff member
if you are replying to #1057, how would you stop and catch pirates on a speed boat with hostages? Helicopter can not shoot them, marines can not land on them. On the other hand, hovercraft launched from the well deck can do that job well with much higher speed than the speed boat pirates use, and it can carry enough special forces.

P.S. PLAN does not necessarily build their ships exactly according to USN practice, there may never be a one to one mapping of ship types. I dare to say there won't be PLAN LHA (without well deck) ever.
He was replying to #1058.

Hovercraft are completely unsuited for anti piracy missions -- I dare say I've never seen of the USN or PLAN using their hovercraft in an anti-piracy capacity. Yes, hovercraft are fast, but they are also very large and compared to RHIBs are very difficult if not impossible to conduct VBSS. If we are talking about a situation where pirates have somehow managed to take hostages aboard their own speedboat, a hovercraft would be even worse off because USN LCACs and PLAN Type 726s are massive vessels that cannot do the VBSS mission let alone hostage rescue. USN and PLAN LCACs are high speed landing craft, unsuited for intercepting small boats

From what I've observed, anti piracy tactics seem to revolve around identifying and boarding the larger, slower pirate "motherships" (where helicopters or RHIBs are perfectly adequate for, when supported by a standard naval ship whether it's a frigate, a destroyer or a larger LHD type ship), or it revolves around deterring high speed pirate boats from getting too close to convoys escorted by naval forces.

If a pirate boat gets too close then warning shots are fired (such as from helicopters or naval ships) along with broadcasted messages to stop to be searched, which is usually enough to stop them and allows you to send a VBSS team aboard an RHIB.
If a pirate speedboat has got hostages somehow then it means you've probably messed up one of the earlier stages. In such a situation if you want to intercept the boat you would probably send a helicopter with a fire team to try and force the boat to stop and have your own RHIB to catch up to it.



An LHD can be useful for the anti piracy role (as mentioned in #1057) because of its complement of helicopters + marines that can do the escort, warning and VBSS missions, as well as using the welldeck of the LHD to store multiple RHIBs.
 

taxiya

Major
Registered Member
He was replying to #1058.

Hovercraft are completely unsuited for anti piracy missions -- I dare say I've never seen of the USN or PLAN using their hovercraft in an anti-piracy capacity. Yes, hovercraft are fast, but they are also very large and compared to RHIBs are very difficult if not impossible to conduct VBSS. If we are talking about a situation where pirates have somehow managed to take hostages aboard their own speedboat, a hovercraft would be even worse off because USN LCACs and PLAN Type 726s are massive vessels that cannot do the VBSS mission let alone hostage rescue. USN and PLAN LCACs are high speed landing craft, unsuited for intercepting small boats

From what I've observed, anti piracy tactics seem to revolve around identifying and boarding the larger, slower pirate "motherships" (where helicopters or RHIBs are perfectly adequate for, when supported by a standard naval ship whether it's a frigate, a destroyer or a larger LHD type ship), or it revolves around deterring high speed pirate boats from getting too close to convoys escorted by naval forces.

If a pirate boat gets too close then warning shots are fired (such as from helicopters or naval ships) along with broadcasted messages to stop to be searched, which is usually enough to stop them and allows you to send a VBSS team aboard an RHIB.
If a pirate speedboat has got hostages somehow then it means you've probably messed up one of the earlier stages. In such a situation if you want to intercept the boat you would probably send a helicopter with a fire team to try and force the boat to stop and have your own RHIB to catch up to it.



An LHD can be useful for the anti piracy role (as mentioned in #1057) because of its complement of helicopters + marines that can do the escort, warning and VBSS missions, as well as using the welldeck of the LHD to store multiple RHIBs.
About the LCAC and Type 726 being massive, yes they are and not suitable than a RHIB, but PLAN has this smaller hovercraft slightly larger than a RHIB.



I agree, chasing and stopping a hostage taken speedboat fleeing towards the coast is the last resort. But I wonder how would a helicopter able to stop the boat, Shooting pirate or the engine is very risky in a choppy water, risking the life of hostages. Hostage takers dare to not stop for that reason.

P.S. I am not saying PLAN is thinking of the same thing as I do, just saying a potential application of LHD.
 
LHDs fill the bill of "We want to patrol and control the sea territory, but we don't want to look too heavy handed using a full sized aircraft carrier to do so."

A case in point would be patrolling the Gulf of Aden. An aircraft carrier would look too heavy handed, but an LHD may not.
LHDs make the most flexible mobile forward operating bases for MOOTW. They are also essential for the PLAN to secure China's near seas up through the 1st island chain. 6 is the minimum number necessary, can use up to double that with a 2:1 ratio to carriers. In my opinion they are more needed than carriers, glad to see they are finally being built and in multiples.
 

Bltizo

Moderator
Staff member
About the LCAC and Type 726 being massive, yes they are and not suitable than a RHIB, but PLAN has this smaller hovercraft slightly larger than a RHIB.



I agree, chasing and stopping a hostage taken speedboat fleeing towards the coast is the last resort. But I wonder how would a helicopter able to stop the boat, Shooting pirate or the engine is very risky in a choppy water, risking the life of hostages. Hostage takers dare to not stop for that reason.

P.S. I am not saying PLAN is thinking of the same thing as I do, just saying a potential application of LHD.
Yes, well a number of navies do have smaller LCACs, however they have the same problems of being able to maneuvre effectively. The benefits of an LCAC as I see it are their speed and their ability to travel on land directly from the sea, which is why they're mostly used as landing craft.


The specific scenario of trying to rescue a hostage taken by a pirate speedboat is a rather unique one and I can't see how an hovercraft (even a smaller one like what you've suggested) would be particularly useful for that mission anyhow; the challenges they would face in that scenario are worse than if you deployed a helicopter+RHIB combination. (e.g.: it's not like a hovercraft will be able to force a pirate boat to stop anymore than a helicopter+RHIB would)



I suppose what I'm saying is that LHDs do have utility for anti piracy (as USN deployments to Gulf of Aden with their LHDs have shown), however that benefit is primarily via their helicopter complement, their marine/VBSS complement and their ability to accommodate larger numbers of larger RHIBs if necessary in the welldeck.
LCACs and hovercrafts are not really a factor for anti piracy.
 

Sczepan

Junior Member
VIP Professional
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Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
That's an article from mil sina and the CGIs are speculative fan made.

There is no reason to take it seriously.
And you are the judge what is speculative and what is not you smart alec. The article does not say anything outlandish or out of this world
The fact is that type 75 can carry a lot of helicopter and certainly ASW is one of the function of LHD The japanese Izumo class LHD is designed and intended as ASW platform
 
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