052/052B Class Destroyers

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

What a great set of pictures we have had from JNCX and a fine update here A.Man great run!

We can see inside both halls clealy and D4 is due soon but it's taken a full 9 months that might just leave enough space to get D5 launched also this year and if anything they should get faster now after 4 units so it's exciting news

Also left hand hall looks like cargo ships no D5 there so we are back to square one with that but a nice update

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Looks like C5 and C6 are taking a back seat the Ds are doing the business right now

One commissioned one on sea trials one on outfitting one ready for lunch and one in modules

A total DDG frenzy!

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

More latest high-resolution photos:

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Bltizo said:

Well for a 130mm bore diameter a 70 caliber gun is 9.1m long...

Click to expand...

it's not important, but maybe one could try to measure that Chinese gun, using some picture showing both the barrel and an object of known size?

Bltizo said:

I'm not sure what caliber the original AK-130 was, some places say 70 as well.

Click to expand...

I quickly checked again yandeks.ru for АК-130 and most webpages quote 6990 mm as the barrel length (54 caliber), now even the Wikipedia says that (was different on January 5, though http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/world-armed-forces/uk-military-news-thread-51-2437.html#post263329

the 9.1 m figure (70 caliber) seems to be the total length of the barrel and turret of the AK-130 gun, to the extent I can understand the term Длина АУ

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

It is a mystery to me as to why the PLAN would choose to continue 052C production concurrent with the improved 052D production.

After all, the new destroyer and her components would have to be ready for such rapid production and commission to occur.

The only reasonable explanation I can see is that the radar sets for the 052C's were already ordered and produced, and the PLAN decided to to use them up by continuing with 052C production despite the fact that the 052D's were already ready-to-go.

That would also mean that very rapid progress was made during the testing of the 052D's new radars.

I think that even the PLAN was a little surprised by the progress made.

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

The 052C is not being produced concurrent with the 052D, or at least, it is more accurate to say that 052D started production before the last 052C was even launched.

For production to be "concurrent," 052C production must have continued after production of the first 052D began, which clearly wasn't the case.


I think what you are trying to say is that 052D seems to be making fast progress, which I don't think anyone would deny. However, there are a few things we should note for the first four 052Ds.

The PLAN may be seeking to commission them early so their crews can develop tactics faster, that is to say, all the various combat systems may not be fully operational.
In the same sense, the last four 052Cs may be more combat ready when they are commissioned compared to 052D, which may explain why they are taking so long to commission in the first place.

But we should also consider that the reason 052Cs 3-6 took a while to commission overall may be because the ESF is receiving them and are not as used to advanced destroyers as the South sea fleet, and that may be the reason why the first 052D is being commissioned so early, because the SSF already has crews acquainted with advanced destroyers so can master them faster. It will be interesting to see how fast the next three 052Ds are commissioned as they are all going to SSF. if they are all commissioned very quickly, then we might be able to conclude that the PLAN are not particularly rushing them into service and its relative speed compared to 052Cs 3-6 is due to more experienced crews and personnel.

We will have to see. There are a variety of possible scenarios that conflict with each other that could explain the overall sight that we are seeing WRT 052C and 052D commissioning speeds.

Also, there is probably a good chance that the testing of 052Ds subsystems are faster than the testing of 052C was, but then again, 052Ds subsystems should be more advanced too. If the PLAN had applied their lessons about programme management well and made full use of their test ships and larger infrastructure, the 052D might well be a little further along in combat readiness than we think

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

duskylim said:

It is a mystery to me as to why the PLAN would choose to continue 052C production concurrent with the improved 052D production.

Click to expand...

Well, the answer is that the Type 052C is no longer being "produced". No more are being built. What you see is the last of those that were launched being outfitted as the newer Type 052D vessels are launched.

Clearly, the PLAN developed a sequence of six Type 052C vessels. Perhaps they did procure all of the systems necessary for them and then had them in the production queue before they were ready to start building the Type 052D and wanted those vessels out there as reapidly as possible.

Juts another exmaple of the PLAN going aheand and building a number of vessels with earlier design VLS, radars, main guns, and close in weapons systems before they were ready to launch a new design that improved on all of those things, and not waiting for all of that new stuff to be ready. They wanted the capability that the Type 052C offered, and that they had procured badly enough to not suspend building until all of the new toys on the Type 052D were ready.

For some reason, after the lats of the Type 052C were completed, a lot of emphasis and priority was placed on the first Type 052D vessel, 172 Kunming, and it ended up being outfitted, trialed, and comissioned before the last Type 052C vessels could be completed.

But, production has switched over to Type 052D and in the end, there will be the six Type 052C vessels that have already been launched, and now future "production," will be on the Type 052D vessels.

The issue now is...how many Type 052Ds will be built?

At least six for sure, but perhaps eight or even twelve may be built...or more. we just do not know at this point.

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Jeff Head said:

Well, the answer is that the Type 052C is no longer beeing "produced". No more are being built. What you see is the last of those that were launched being outfitted as the newer Type 052D vessels are launched.

Clearly, the PLAN developed a sequence of six Type 052C vessels. Perhaps they did procure all of the systems necessary for them and then had them in the production queue before they were ready to start building the Type 052D and wanted those vessels out there as reapidly as possible.

Juts another exmaple of the PLAN going aheand and building a number of vessels with earlier design VLS, radars, main guns, and close in weapons systems before they were ready to launch a new design that improved on all of those things, and not waiting for all of that new stuff to be ready. They wanted the capability that the Type 052C offered, and that they had procured badly enough to not suspend building until all of the new toys on the Type 052D were ready.

For some reason, after the lats of the Type 052C were completed, a lot of emphasis and priority was placed on the first Type 052D vessel, 172 Kunming, and it ended up being outfitted, trialed, and comissioned before the last Type 052C vessels could be completed.

But, production has switched over to Type 052D and in the end, there will be the six Type 052C vessels that have already been launched, and now future "production," will be on the Type 052D vessels.

The issue now is...how many Type 052Ds will be built?

At least six for sure, but perhaps eight or even twelve may be built...or more. we just do not know at this point.

Click to expand...

Another stupid question. How easy is it to convert 052C to 052D? Can they convert those 052Cs that are still undergoing outfitting to 052D? Is it more cost-effective and more efficient to convert those 052C's to 052D's, in addition to building more 052D's from scratch?

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

vesicles said:

Another stupid question. How easy is it to convert 052C to 052D? Can they convert those 052Cs that are still undergoing outfitting to 052D? Is it more cost-effective and more efficient to convert those 052C's to 052D's, in addition to building more 052D's from scratch?

Click to expand...

Not stupid at all, my friend. It is a good question. Noentheless, I seriously doubt they will do such a refit. It could be done for sure...but would entail simply too much and be too expensive and take them out of service for too long.

Here's why I believe this.

Because the APARs are larger, the entire bridge and main deck housing forward had to be changed to accomodate them. Also, the VLS cells are much different, and as are their beneath deck components. Particularly in the aft area where the new VLS is situated on the main deck between the Type 571M Radar housing and the helo hanger, completely different than the aft VLS housings on the Type 052C. The helo hanger itself is now oriented in the midlle intstead of to the side.

The main gun and its beneath deck components are also much different.

All of those changes would require very significant structural changes to the Type 052Cs to accomodate them. Because of this, I seriously doubt that they will refit the Type 052C vessels to the Type 052D configuration.

Re: PLAN Type 052 Class Destroyer

Edit: ctually, ignore this post, I misread