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Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
In that case we just have to agree to disagree.

The radar system and associated weapons system is capable of providing medium range area air defense and is survivable in low intensity and medium intensity conflicts and when supported by destroyers can also contribute to a high intensity battlespace.


Against a high technology enemy operating unsupported the ship is of course completely screwed and non survivable but that is part of the package that I was under the impression everyone already was aware of.

Let me put it in a way that's easier to understand.

This kind of radar is easy to jam.
 

Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Let me put it in a way that's easier to understand.

This kind of radar is easy to jam.

This doesn't go against what I've written.

If this frigate is up against an opfor with anything resembling semi capable EW capabilities then it should have friendly air and naval support that its operating in conjunction with.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
This doesn't go against what I've written.

If this frigate is up against an opfor with anything resembling semi capable EW capabilities then it should have friendly air and naval support that its operating in conjunction with.

Why does it need to have friendly air and naval support to survive? Why should you even have a low goalpost for a naval warship 2020-2060?
 

Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Why does it need to have friendly air and naval support to survive? Why should you even have a low goalpost for a naval warship 2020-2060?

Because this is 054A and you seem to expect it to be 054B from the outset of these 20 extra ships.

I have no issue with the idea of 054As getting MLUs (in fact I expect them all to get MLUs in time) and I'm not ruling out the possibility that these 20 ships (some or all) might get sensor upgrade as well as built.


But the expectation that such upgrades are inevitable or assured on these 20 ships is not something I think we can reasonably state.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Because this is 054A and you seem to expect it to be 054B from the outset of these 20 extra ships.

I have no issue with the idea of 054As getting MLUs (in fact I expect them all to get MLUs in time) and I'm not ruling out the possibility that these 20 ships (some or all) might get sensor upgrade as well as built.


But the expectation that such upgrades are inevitable or assured on these 20 ships is not something I think we can reasonably state.

You keep deflecting the issue to this. Go back to what I was pointing out to what you were saying. That this is some kind of capable PESA when it is not.

In any case, there is a reason why they added the Type 364.

200452714545719 (3).jpg
 

Totoro

Captain
VIP Professional
the expectation that such upgrades are inevitable or assured on these 20 ships is not something I think we can reasonably state.
Bltizo, which od these two do you personally believe is more likely for that new 20 ship batch of 054As to have?
A) new main radar (aesa)
B) or modified hangar and elongated pad to operate z20?

Note the question is not about overall likelihood but which of the two choices is more likely.
 

by78

Brigadier
A satellite overview of Jiangnan shipyard dated October 14th. That sail-less experimental sub is spotted.

50630295572_a6cfd12195_o.jpg
 

Kich

New Member
Registered Member
A satellite overview of Jiangnan shipyard dated October 14th. That sail-less experimental sub is spotted.

50630295572_a6cfd12195_o.jpg
Everything seems correct except at the bottom labels. Labels C and B seemed switched for those two ships being fitted out.
 

Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Bltizo, which od these two do you personally believe is more likely for that new 20 ship batch of 054As to have?
A) new main radar (aesa)
B) or modified hangar and elongated pad to operate z20?

Note the question is not about overall likelihood but which of the two choices is more likely.

I don't think either option A) or B) are necessarily inevitable or that we should anticipate them as "expected/done deals'.

But I personally think B) is more likely, as it is only minor structural rework of the ship and in a way which doesn't place additional topweight on it, and basically just adds a small rear hull plug in. For the Navy that will be operating it, there won't be any substantial re-development and verification of the sensors and electronic systems in the ship that might be needed with a radar upgrade.

That said, as I've repeatedly stated, I'm not against A) either. In fact I think there's a good chance some of the 20 batch of ships might get an upgraded sensor suite partway through the production run. It's even possible it might emerge on the first ship of those 20.


My whole argument the last few pages has basically been "it's possible we might see improvements like A) or B), but let's not talk about them as if they're done deals".

=====


You keep deflecting the issue to this. Go back to what I was pointing out to what you were saying. That this is some kind of capable PESA when it is not.

In any case, there is a reason why they added the Type 364.

I'm not "deflecting" the issue -- the whole reason I'm having this discussion is because you've been talking about a radar upgrade as if it is something which we should expect.

I've already explained my position on the 054A's radar system in #3832 and and #3830. For the intended role and mission set of the ship the radar is perfectly capable in its role.
If you think it is not capable then that's because you think the 054A has a different set of mission set and capability profile than what I do. This part of the discussion was settled multiple posts ago and I'm not sure why you keep obsessing over it.
 

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
I don't think either option A) or B) are necessarily inevitable or that we should anticipate them as "expected/done deals'.

But I personally think B) is more likely, as it is only minor structural rework of the ship and in a way which doesn't place additional topweight on it, and basically just adds a small rear hull plug in. For the Navy that will be operating it, there won't be any substantial re-development and verification of the sensors and electronic systems in the ship that might be needed with a radar upgrade.

That said, as I've repeatedly stated, I'm not against A) either. In fact I think there's a good chance some of the 20 batch of ships might get an upgraded sensor suite partway through the production run. It's even possible it might emerge on the first ship of those 20.


My whole argument the last few pages has basically been "it's possible we might see improvements like A) or B), but let's not talk about them as if they're done deals".

=====




I'm not "deflecting" the issue -- the whole reason I'm having this discussion is because you've been talking about a radar upgrade as if it is something which we should expect.

I've already explained my position on the 054A's radar system in #3832 and and #3830. For the intended role and mission set of the ship the radar is perfectly capable in its role.
If you think it is not capable then that's because you think the 054A has a different set of mission set and capability profile than what I do. This part of the discussion was settled multiple posts ago and I'm not sure why you keep obsessing over it.

Let me explain that this is exactly what you said.

Also, while the Sea Eagle radar of course isn't an AESA, it is a quite capable PESA and perfectly fine for its time and still capable now although obviously far from cutting edge.

And this

it is a quite capable PESA and perfectly fine for its time and still capable now

isn't true.

It is up to you think upgrades may or may not be done, but the bottom line is that this radar is not perfectly fine.
 

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