PLAAF JH-XX / H-X bomber project


Bltizo

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Shame the face is blotted out. The physique is similar to a woman with the Weibo handle zhudaxiang. If it is her then it is very likely legit.

Legit in what way?
The model looks like the same aircraft from modern weaponry, down to almost the exact details.

I find it very, very suspect and doubtful that the PLA would allow the real configuration of the H-20 to be released either via modern weaponry or via a picture of a model.

I am more tempted to say that this is perhaps just a model form of the educated guess design of the H-20 from modern weaponry magazine.
 

Richard Santos

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That canopy would only suggest a bigger aircraft. The B-21 and B-2 canopies are similar ( if not larger from the top view).

I would've used the engine bump or landing gears to guess the size.
No, B-21 B-2 have no canopy. They have an enclosed cockpit with side by side seating, windscreen and side windows. The aircraft in attachment 73225 has a canopy over a cockpit whose configuration strongly suggest 2 person tandem seating.

it is not altogether impossible that the Chinese might choose tandem seating in the cockpit of a large bomber, but it seems unlikely because it has been accepted since the early 1950s that such seating arrangement is ergonomically unsuitable for long duration missions. But nonetheless there had been large bombers that used this cockpit configuration Before the 1950s, See the B-47 and first prototype of the B-52. Notice how small the canopies are compared to the aircraft.
 

Richard Santos

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Legit in what way?
The model looks like the same aircraft from modern weaponry, down to almost the exact details.

I find it very, very suspect and doubtful that the PLA would allow the real configuration of the H-20 to be released either via modern weaponry or via a picture of a model.

I am more tempted to say that this is perhaps just a model form of the educated guess design of the H-20 from modern weaponry magazine.
I don’t find it doubtful. Unlike the former Soviet Union, China appreciate the fact that there is little to be gained through the sort of excessive secrecy that keeps the basic configuration of major weapon systems under wraps all the way until spy satellites sees the final product. In fact it is counter productive because it heighten questions and suspicions about long term strategic intent, encourages others to assume the worst, obtain larger budgets, and over-prepare to counter it.

Since the 1990s China has always allowed enough information about major weapon systems under development to leak out long before first public unveiling, so as to ensure China‘s long term strategic intent is made clear and verified by reasonably clear line of sight to what China is likely to deploy for the next 10 + years.

beinh unpredictable does not always confer a net advantage. Sometimes it worsens one’s position by encouraging others to devote more effort than necessary to box you in.
 

Bltizo

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No, B-21 B-2 have no canopy. They have an enclosed cockpit with side by side seating, windscreen and side windows. The aircraft in attachment 73225 has a canopy over a cockpit whose configuration strongly suggest 2 person tandem seating.

it is not altogether impossible that the Chinese might choose tandem seating in the cockpit of a large bomber, but it seems unlikely because it has been accepted since the early 1950s that such seating arrangement is ergonomically unsuitable for long duration missions. But nonetheless there had been large bombers that used this cockpit configuration Before the 1950s, See the B-47 and first prototype of the B-52. Notice how small the canopies are compared to the aircraft.

All of the bomber depictions look like they have cockpits and canopies/windows consistent with side by side seating...
 

Bltizo

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I don’t find it doubtful. Unlike the former Soviet Union, China appreciate the fact that there is little to be gained through the sort of excessive secrecy that keeps the basic configuration of major weapon systems under wraps all the way until spy satellites sees the final product. In fact it is counter productive because it heighten questions and suspicions about long term strategic intent, encourages others to assume the worst, obtain larger budgets, and over-prepare to counter it.

Since the 1990s China has always allowed enough information about major weapon systems under development to leak out long before first public unveiling what China is likely to deploy for the next 10 + years, so China‘s long term strategic intent is clear, at least to those who need to allocate money and set strategic policy.

I'm very familiar with the way in which the PLA leaks and reveals new weapons.

And I'm saying if that model/magazine depiction is reflective of the real things design, I'd be very surprised because it would be inconsistent with how they've done things in the recent past.


Frankly I don't know how you can say the PLA are not "excessively secretive". Have you seen how closely they guard things ranging from new stealth fighters, new turbofan engines, new firearms, new ships, when they are ok the development/construction stage??
 

Richard Santos

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I'm very familiar with the way in which the PLA leaks and reveals new weapons.

And I'm saying if that model/magazine depiction is reflective of the real things design, I'd be very surprised because it would be inconsistent with how they've done things in the recent past.


Frankly I don't know how you can say the PLA are not "excessively secretive". Have you seen how closely they guard things ranging from new stealth fighters, new turbofan engines, new firearms, new ships, when they are ok the development/construction stage??

do you remember what excessive secrecy under the Soviet union looked like?

The configuration of the su-27 wasn;t understood in the west until 4 years after the first flight. For a time after the first flight had already occurred the su-27 was believed to be a swing wing fighter similar to the F-14. The existence of a new cruise missile carrying bomber wasn’t confirmed until a TU-160 was photographed parked next to a TU-144. The true designation of Tu-22M bomber wasn;t clear until 12 years after the first flight. The Alfa fast attack submarine was a complete surprise.
 
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Xsizor

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No, B-21 B-2 have no canopy. They have an enclosed cockpit with side by side seating, windscreen and side windows. The aircraft in attachment 73225 has a canopy over a cockpit whose configuration strongly suggest 2 person tandem seating.

it is not altogether impossible that the Chinese might choose tandem seating in the cockpit of a large bomber, but it seems unlikely because it has been accepted since the early 1950s that such seating arrangement is ergonomically unsuitable for long duration missions. But nonetheless there had been large bombers that used this cockpit configuration Before the 1950s, See the B-47 and first prototype of the B-52. Notice how small the canopies are compared to the aircraft.
That's the JH-XX ( the aircraft with the likely tandem cockpit).

It was shown in an Chinese Aviation Magazine and a big (+2 m long) model appeared in an expo.

I just included it among the flying wing designs. It's the odd one out as it's not a flying wing. It isn't in the same class. The title of the thread itself is JH-XX / H-X. That model is the JH-XX. It might do a similar role as of Tu-22 (?).

But the fact is, the military teaser( that was aping the Northrop B-21 teaser) had a similar silhouette/ outline to a flying wing bomber. So the notion that the next bomber would be a JH-XX was automatically dropped.

The model you were commenting on originally ( the folding tail one held by that woman) is definitely a big aircraft. It's cockpit is smaller than a B-2 /B-21 in comparison.
 
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gelgoog

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Actually these flying wing "leaks" remind me of the pictures we got before the J-20 came out. It is probably close to but not the real thing.
It is probably one of the flying wing designs which lost out to the one that will really be used.

The biggest question with regards to the JH-XX design would be which engine would they use. The Tu-22M series uses a twin engine layout with about twice the thrust per engine of that in a regular fighter. The alternative is to use a quad engine design similar to the B-1 but that requires podded engines. I am not sure if that JH-XX design with the engines on top would work with a quad engine. I mean, I get why they want to put the engines on top, to maximize usable internal volume, but putting them below like on the B-1 achieves much the same result and is a proven design. The Soviets had a proposal for the Tu-22M replacement which used engines on top but it was never put into service. Putting the engines on top and in the back like in the original Tu-22 didn't work out. But putting them closer to the center might work.
 

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