PLA New Assault Rifle family


EdgeOfEcho

New Member
Registered Member
1592157784933.png

This was posted by the magazine “Small Arms” (轻武器), which is administered by the 208 institute who is in charge of developing the new rifle family.

The weibo post basically says that the 208 institute has completed important trials and tests of the "1224 Project" (1224工程 during the period from march 25th to May 28th. The project is relatively complicated, and more than 30 companies/factories/institutes are involved. During this period, more than 40k rounds were test fired and all of the trails are completed successfully.

Upon closer inspection, I investigated what the "1224 Project" is, and I found a interesting article posted recently. I am not certain of the validity of the claims being made in the article, but some of the points made are interesting, and I think it is pretty legit.

Here is the link:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


It is in Chinese, but I'll try to summarize some of the key points of this article.

1. A project (工程), in Chinese military development terms, often involves the development of an entire system composed of sub-systems. There was a 1224 project in the 1970s before this current 1224 project, and that old 1224 project is about developing a 2nd generation tank. The project included the development of new sub-systems like a new gun, new auto-loader, new engine and such. Although the old 1224 project failed, it is a good example of how a "project" in Chinese military terms means. So the new "1224 Project" assigned to 208 institute is a big deal and a lot of sub-systems are being developed.

2. The PLA's emphasis in the past (90s) has been on heavy equipments (like tanks or APCs) instead of infantry equipment like armor, small arms and camo due to the Cold War mindset that focus on large scale warfare against the soviet union and many other reasons. Thus, small arms development has not been given much priority, and the requirements by the PLA emphasized more on the weapon being lighter, cheaper to produce and repair instead of being modular, ergonomic or other qualities. But now with the PLA being mostly mechanized, soldiers no longer need to march long distances, and large scale warfare with near-peer adversary is unlikely, the priorities are shifting to infantry equipment and what is deemed as important in small arms by the PLA has also changed from prior requirements.

3. "1224 Project" is the response to this trend of making infantry equipment more modular, customizable and high-tech. The project may include a few sub-systems:

a. QBZ191 rifles with 3 known versions (short barrel version, normal length and marksman version, we've seen all of them so I'm not gonna post any pics)

b. Two new sniper rifles (one may be CS/LR4 turning into a true service rifle instead of being in limited trial phase as it is now, and a new 12.7mm bolt action sniper)
1592159563970.png

c. New SAW (squad automatic weapon that uses 5.8mm ammo used by other members in the squad and can fire longer and more consistently than a normal rifle)
1592159544024.png

d. New GPMG (may be using 7.62x51mm ammo, DJP-201 ammo, D means bullet弹, J means machine gun机枪, P means normal普通)
1592159513260.png

e. New 12.7mm heavy machine gun to replace the QJZ- 89, apparently it will be even lighter than QJZ 89 (QJZ 89 machine gun weights around 26-27kg with tripod), and the new hmg will be more accurate than the type 89. The article said under emergency situations, this new HMG can even be used as a big GPMG!

1592159601015.png

f. New 5.8mm ammo shown in many earlier posts.

g. New uniforms, which we have seen on the infantry equipment thread. You can find many pictures online.

h. new camo, we have seen during the parade.

i. new infantry carrier systems, which we have also seen during parade and other sources.

j. there may be a new launcher like the Carl Gustav recoilless gun. It is likely 82mm, and it will replace PF98 120mm launcher, because 120mm launcher is too heavy and somewhat obsolete against modern tanks (this is what the article says, I am not a expert on AT weapons so take this claim with a grain of salt), and a lighter AT weapons is more suitable for PLA's needs.
 

kriss

Junior Member
Registered Member
j. there may be a new launcher like the Carl Gustav recoilless gun. It is likely 82mm, and it will replace PF98 120mm launcher, because 120mm launcher is too heavy and somewhat obsolete against modern tanks (this is what the article says, I am not a expert on AT weapons so take this claim with a grain of salt), and a lighter AT weapons is more suitable for PLA's needs.
PF98's main function is anti fortification while it is indeed not really good at anti tank. There was already a new 80mm disposable rocket launcher that replaced PF89 which could also be a replacement for PF98's anti fortification role and the rumor of HJ-12 replace its anti tank role has been around for a long time. My thought is new doctrine would view such a heavy launcher as obsolete and would redirect its role to other equipment instead of develop a direct counterpart.
 

Josh Luo

Senior Member
Registered Member
View attachment 60914

This was posted by the magazine “Small Arms” (轻武器), which is administered by the 208 institute who is in charge of developing the new rifle family.

The weibo post basically says that the 208 institute has completed important trials and tests of the "1224 Project" (1224工程 during the period from march 25th to May 28th. The project is relatively complicated, and more than 30 companies/factories/institutes are involved. During this period, more than 40k rounds were test fired and all of the trails are completed successfully.

Upon closer inspection, I investigated what the "1224 Project" is, and I found a interesting article posted recently. I am not certain of the validity of the claims being made in the article, but some of the points made are interesting, and I think it is pretty legit.

Here is the link:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


It is in Chinese, but I'll try to summarize some of the key points of this article.

1. A project (工程), in Chinese military development terms, often involves the development of an entire system composed of sub-systems. There was a 1224 project in the 1970s before this current 1224 project, and that old 1224 project is about developing a 2nd generation tank. The project included the development of new sub-systems like a new gun, new auto-loader, new engine and such. Although the old 1224 project failed, it is a good example of how a "project" in Chinese military terms means. So the new "1224 Project" assigned to 208 institute is a big deal and a lot of sub-systems are being developed.

2. The PLA's emphasis in the past (90s) has been on heavy equipments (like tanks or APCs) instead of infantry equipment like armor, small arms and camo due to the Cold War mindset that focus on large scale warfare against the soviet union and many other reasons. Thus, small arms development has not been given much priority, and the requirements by the PLA emphasized more on the weapon being lighter, cheaper to produce and repair instead of being modular, ergonomic or other qualities. But now with the PLA being mostly mechanized, soldiers no longer need to march long distances, and large scale warfare with near-peer adversary is unlikely, the priorities are shifting to infantry equipment and what is deemed as important in small arms by the PLA has also changed from prior requirements.

3. "1224 Project" is the response to this trend of making infantry equipment more modular, customizable and high-tech. The project may include a few sub-systems:

a. QBZ191 rifles with 3 known versions (short barrel version, normal length and marksman version, we've seen all of them so I'm not gonna post any pics)

b. Two new sniper rifles (one may be CS/LR4 turning into a true service rifle instead of being in limited trial phase as it is now, and a new 12.7mm bolt action sniper)
View attachment 60917

c. New SAW (squad automatic weapon that uses 5.8mm ammo used by other members in the squad and can fire longer and more consistently than a normal rifle)
View attachment 60916

d. New GPMG (may be using 7.62x51mm ammo, DJP-201 ammo, D means bullet弹, J means machine gun机枪, P means normal普通)
View attachment 60915

e. New 12.7mm heavy machine gun to replace the QJZ- 89, apparently it will be even lighter than QJZ 89 (QJZ 89 machine gun weights around 26-27kg with tripod), and the new hmg will be more accurate than the type 89. The article said under emergency situations, this new HMG can even be used as a big GPMG!

View attachment 60918

f. New 5.8mm ammo shown in many earlier posts.

g. New uniforms, which we have seen on the infantry equipment thread. You can find many pictures online.

h. new camo, we have seen during the parade.

i. new infantry carrier systems, which we have also seen during parade and other sources.

j. there may be a new launcher like the Carl Gustav recoilless gun. It is likely 82mm, and it will replace PF98 120mm launcher, because 120mm launcher is too heavy and somewhat obsolete against modern tanks (this is what the article says, I am not a expert on AT weapons so take this claim with a grain of salt), and a lighter AT weapons is more suitable for PLA's needs.
So while the armor forces will still use 7.62x54R as coaxial MG ammo, the infantry and snipers will use 7.62x51 NATO as new full-power cartridge? I wonder if the Chinese would develop something similar to the M80A1 (130 grain, ~3,050 FPS) in order to increase lethality and penetration. Also, is the .338 Lapua for the Orsis T-5000 sniper rifles only? Why not just adopt the .338 Lapua as the new machine gun and sniper rifle full-power cartridge?
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
So while the armor forces will still use 7.62x54R as coaxial MG ammo, the infantry and snipers will use 7.62x51 NATO as new full-power cartridge? I wonder if the Chinese would develop something similar to the M80A1 (130 grain, ~3,050 FPS) in order to increase lethality and penetration. Also, is the .338 Lapua for the Orsis T-5000 sniper rifles only? Why not just adopt the .338 Lapua as the new machine gun and sniper rifle full-power cartridge?
It is possible but is it necessary? The US has been going that route with .338 Norma because they don’t have a weapon that sits between the M240 and M2 BMG. Attempts at such (XM312, XM806) have been canceled due to rate of fire and weight issues. The PLA and Russians have two weapons that would sit there 7.62x54R has the potential to be upgraded to a better round than 7.62x51Nato but not by much and the light weight 12.7x108mm MGs of both. but general they make trade offs that the Russian and Chinese felt was acceptable.
 

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