New dreadnought race - cruiser sized destroyers

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
With the first of the Type 055 now in service and seven more in various stages of fitting out I noticed an interesting pattern around the world: there's suddenly a flood of countries rushing into announcing project for building similar cruiser sized destroyers. It reminds me of the period around the maiden flight of J-20 where suddenly every country was announcing their own 5th generation fighter projects. : (examples:
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So I figure we should have a thread to document this development. Here are the four announcements I have seen:

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Displacement: 13,000 tons
Railgun
300 kW and 100kW laser CIWS
EMALS launched UAV
Can launch Brahmos II
Two 36MW gas turbine

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Displacement: 10,000 tons
Leonardo 127mm gun
64 cell VLS
8 Teseo mk2e launchers
Three Leonardo 76mm guns
Kronos X and C band AESA
L-band Kronos Power Shield radar

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Standard displacement: 9,000 tons
Lockheed Martin AN/SPY-7
Can be armed with SM-3 MkIIA

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Not much is known, but bigger than Arleigh Burke Flight 3 and intended to replace Ticonderoga-class.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
With the first of the Type 055 now in service and seven more in various stages of fitting out I noticed an interesting pattern around the world: there's suddenly a flood of countries rushing into announcing project for building similar cruiser sized destroyers. It reminds me of the period around the maiden flight of J-20 where suddenly every country was announcing their own 5th generation fighter projects. : (examples:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)

So I figure we should have a thread to document this development. Here are the four announcements I have seen:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Displacement: 13,000 tons
Railgun
300 kW and 100kW laser CIWS
EMALS launched UAV
Can launch Brahmos II
Two 36MW gas turbine

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Displacement: 10,000 tons
Leonardo 127mm gun
64 cell VLS
8 Teseo mk2e launchers
Three Leonardo 76mm guns
Kronos X and C band AESA
L-band Kronos Power Shield radar

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Standard displacement: 9,000 tons
Lockheed Martin AN/SPY-7
Can be armed with SM-3 MkIIA

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Not much is known, but bigger than Arleigh Burke Flight 3 and intended to replace Ticonderoga-class.

10,000 ton category destroyers/surface combatants have been present for years since the Burke IIA, Kongo/Atago and Sejong all first came onto the scene, at least a decade and a half ago.

I wouldn't call this a particularly new trend.

For the Italian project, if it is 10k tons then it would be the first European surface combatant in modern times to reach that threshold.


For the Indian P18, to be honest I've seen nothing credible about this project at all, and given the pattern of Indian Navy procurement history, if they were truly pursuing a ship of this size to emerge in the near future (2028 launch, really?) we'd be seeing the IN using the P18 designation in official nomenclature and seeing public statements about its budgeting already, going by how they pursued other big ticket naval projects.


Currently the largest modern surface combatants remain the Zumwalt at some 15,000 tons, and the 055 at 13,000 tons.

Followed by the Sejong, Maya and Flight III Burkes/Atago/Kongo etc.


I fully expect surface combatants to continue to become larger going forwards, but modern new build surface combatants with a 10k ton full displacement are not abnormal. Hardly a dreadnought race. And the divisions between "cruisers" and destroyers are so trivial these days its almost not worth debating except for the sake of naval terminology and detailed enthusiasm. A Burke IIA destroyer displaces virtually the same as a Ticonderoga "cruiser," and capability and size and role aren't even inherently linked anymore for modern surface combatants as far as differentiation of a "destroyer" and "cruiser" goes.

Zumwalt and 055 at this stage are still the outliers, and of the two 055 is the only one that has been produced in meaningful numbers so far.
 
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silentlurker

Junior Member
Registered Member
From the very article you linked for Italy:

"Long-range firepower for the destroyers will be guaranteed by six eight-cell missile launchers for a total of 48 cells, with two launchers toward the bow (ahead of the bridge) and the remainder amidships."

Also what? Only 48 cells? Did they really need 3 76mm + 127 cannons....
 

Temstar

Brigadier
Registered Member
From the very article you linked for Italy:

"Long-range firepower for the destroyers will be guaranteed by six eight-cell missile launchers for a total of 48 cells, with two launchers toward the bow (ahead of the bridge) and the remainder amidships."

Also what? Only 48 cells? Did they really need 3 76mm + 127 cannons....
Yeah that cell count is very low, however I don't think 48 is correct. I count 8 x eight cell units on the CG, with two near the bow and 6 amid ship. 64 is still shockingly low for a ship of that size.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Biggest current surface combatant is the Kirov class, 24,000 to 28,000 tons, one currently in service, two currently in refit, and a third in mothballs they are actively considering bringing back to service via refit.

Next lower in the Russian list is the Slava class, three in current service, basically 10,000 ton cruisers.

For years, the Russians have been referring to the Lider class for their next destroyer which is a 17,000 ton ship. But lack of funds means they will be pursuing upgraded versions of the Admiral Gorshkov class frigate instead.

Having such ideas such as the Lider class tells you there is a growing trend towards bigger ships in concept but the Lider class also tells you the backside of this, and that is you can get into a budget ceiling. All these 'super destroyers' may end up the same way as the Lider --- killed by the budget.

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gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think eventually something like Lider will come out from Russia. They have the technology, they have the facilities, and I think they have the funding. It is just right now building more frigates and destroyers is more cost effective for Russia.

Imagine they build a couple of those ships for the cost of a dozen frigates. Given the large coastline they have to cover it is quite simple they have to go for the smaller ships first.

You are correct that such ships can be expensive. One example would be the US nuclear cruiser program which was basically cut.
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sinophilia

Junior Member
Registered Member
Biggest current surface combatant is the Kirov class, 24,000 to 28,000 tons, one currently in service, two currently in refit, and a third in mothballs they are actively considering bringing back to service via refit.

That is incorrect. Two are officially confirmed to be scrapped in 2021, one in active service, and one just launched for commissioning in 2022.

So potentially 2 Kirov and 3 Slava, giving Russia still the 2nd largest number of 10,000+ tonnage surface ships (after China).

3x Slava total tonnage is 36,480 tonnes of full displacement. 2x Kirov give 56,000 tons, so 92,480 tonnes of full displacement among these 5 ships alone.

Crazy how big the Kirovs are, 28,000 tonnes each.
 
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