Japan pushes for permanent membership on the UN Security Council

Blackstone

Brigadier
I would like to see you try to get France and UK share a SC seat. I'd think that would really end in UK leaving EU.
The solution from far away would seem to be a single EU seat but for that you need a common European foreign policy which it is impossible to achieve unless the US stop meddling and then take another thirty or so years.

Obviously no current permanent members can be forced out, but adding too many new seats isn't the answer either because it makes the council too unwieldy. But the UN Security Council is in dire need of reform, since the world has changed beyond original purpose of the "Four Policemen" plus France.
 

In4ser

Junior Member
China should offer its vote on the UN Security Council seat to Japan in return for Sovereignty of Diaoyutai. Though I'm not sure if Russia would even want Japan on the Council, even if China is okay with it.
 

jobjed

Captain
China should offer its vote on the UN Security Council seat to Japan in return for Sovereignty of Diaoyutai. Though I'm not sure if Russia would even want Japan on the Council, even if China is okay with it.

Ceding a UNSC position to Japan is a permanent decision that China will likely regret in the future. As for the Diaoyu Islands dispute, it's easiest settled by virtue of the involved parties' military strength since dialogue will likely get nowhere. It's pretty obvious which country will have the overwhelmingly more powerful military in the future. China needn't yield to Japan, Diaoyu will come under China's control sooner or later; the same cannot be said for a Japanese position on the UN security council, though.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
China should offer its vote on the UN Security Council seat to Japan in return for Sovereignty of Diaoyutai. Though I'm not sure if Russia would even want Japan on the Council, even if China is okay with it.

Diaoyu Isle is China's by right, and Japan should receive goodwill and peaceful coexistence for returning stolen property. Nothing else. Not even the promise of Chinese support for a seat on the Security Council.
 

cn_habs

Junior Member
China should offer its vote on the UN Security Council seat to Japan in return for Sovereignty of Diaoyutai. Though I'm not sure if Russia would even want Japan on the Council, even if China is okay with it.

No freaking way. Japan will never be admitted into the security counsel as long as China stands.

The US successfully created this clucksterfvck to begin with by giving Japan the administration to the islands back then...like it hasn't done enough already by destroying Iraq and Syria giving ISIS to opportunity and space to grow to it is today.
 

jobjed

Captain
Created a new vehicle Blackstone? :)

Nah, it's one of his idiosyncrasies. He displays an odd amalgamation of pragmatism and idealism. If an issue is to do purely with foreign nations, he sides with his principles. If said issue concerns the US, he exercises pragmatism - meaning that even if it's not morally right, he nonetheless concurs if it's in America's interests.
 
I hate to say it, but Japan has more rights to a permanent seat on the UN Security Council than either UK or France. In a just world, Japan would already be on it. You could say the same for Germany and India. Maybe they should consolidate UK and French seats into one, and add Germany and India as new members. The UN could negotiate Japan's status after that.

Originally I'm interested in seeing Japan's position as UNSC permanent member and how they will perform, but then I thought for a moment and felt Japan will eventually become a second US in terms of behaviours, attitudes, and that's not good for their health. Japan, even China, is only beginning to emerge on the stage as major pawnbroker in hard power games, and personally I'd say only USA and Russia are very good at this game. (US for its participation in many situations, including screwing them epically to FUBAR status(Iraq, Libya, etc), while Russia's played really hard policies and actually able to affect geopolitical regions). While China's power is growing tremendously, its actual political influences are still regional at best, and not "experienced", or matured yet, imo, to deal with greater varieties of human securities and the participations in terms of depthness/intensity are still inexperienced. Part of this had to do with China not only still learning and minimal exposures, but also its non-interventionist policies which put it in a more passive role. And obviously France is barely an existence. As for back to Japan, I will say the same for Japan as I would say for China, but technically Japan has a lot less invested interests and power scopes in pretty much anything, so Abe, honestly, is really just wasting everyone's precious time at the Assembly. He's doing this to try and project and fling Japan back into the role of a normalized, strong nation, but if he looks himself in the mirror and reflect deeply(which is a wishful thinking), he's potentially setting up Japan for a dangerous path. In the contemporary Japan where a party like the LDP, which has a militarist past and ongoing militarist/right-wingist politicians atmosphere, has a major footprint in the Diet, LDP leaders will often succeed as the head of government. And going along with them will be harder-lined foreign policies and attitudes towards security conflicts agendas that pertains to only Japanese interests, which can come at the expense of the best interests of the primary conflict actors. This is essentially the Washington or all the P5's attitudes towards security agendas, and therefore adding Japan into the game is technically complicating things further. tl;dr, basically Japan is digging a hole for itself, UNSC/the world gets no benefits, and he's wasting everyone's time.

People often pondered the notion of changing the rules of the game of the UNSC or adding more Permanent seats, but I recalled one UN official saying, and which I agreed too, is that it's not only gonna complicate things further, but actually will stop UNSC completely to a halt. Adding more seats means you have to change the game first, and changing the game means the system of the SC will change rapidly for the worse(or defeats the SC's functionality) unless it's test-certified.

I also don't think the Japanese public really cares too much about what's happening on the other side of the world too much.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
It's not clear what strategy he'll use to convince China not to veto Japan's membership.

I doubt very much that he is going to do anything different in the short-term.

You refer to tilting at windmills - I think his main target is Japanese public opinion and encouraging them to see Japan with a more prominent role in international affairs. Simply advocating in the UN for a permanent UNSC for Japan can help do that.

As things stand in the Ukraine affair, it's possible Russia might vote against Japan too.

Well Putin hasn't taken some of the extreme action he's proposed against Europe and North America like closing off air space, so he may not take the extreme course of action to wield a veto. I think he would be sensible to let China veto the proposal and leave open the possibility of rapprochement with Japan. After all, he supposedly likes divide and conquer tactics. He loses nothing by not using a veto.

I would like to see you try to get France and UK share a SC seat.

Indeed. Obviously you can't share a vote or a veto.

The solution from far away would seem to be a single EU seat but for that you need a common European foreign policy which it is impossible to achieve unless the US stop meddling and then take another thirty or so years.

Don't blame the US for a lack of EU consensus. There are nearly 30 different countries in the EU. You're going to find it hard to get consensus on controversial foreign issues. So you would either have an "EU" ambassador at the UN who abstained 70-80% of the time, or a group of big EU countries forcibly deciding foreign policy for everyone.

More importantly, the EU spends a pathetic amount of GDP on defence. What's the Netherlands' spending - 1.4% of GDP? Germany's is even less. A permanent "EU" seat would, I think, require a big uplift in spending and a unified European military command. As explained above, the second won't happen because EU members often have differing foreign policy views. And the first won't happen because a lot of European nations want to rely on NATO (i.e. the US and to a lesser extent the UK) rather than make hard budget decisions.

Of course, if France wanted to surrender its seat in the UN and give it to the EU, that would be another solution.

I honestly don't even know if 30 years would be enough to form the sort of EU that could be able to use a permanent EU seat properly. Germany is too pacifist to lead the EU properly, France is an economic/budgetary basket-case and the UK is looking to avoid the EU becoming a federalist superstate.
 
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xiabonan

Junior Member
Just forget it.

It will another World War to change the UNSC structure fundamentally.

At least that's how I see it.

Let alone China and Russia's veto, I even doubt the US would want to allow Japan to become a permanent member of the UN, unless they're damn assured that they can control Japan forever, but I highly doubt the case.

If Japan assumes the permanent seat, the next logical and natural demand from them would be to legally possess nuclear weapons.

The Yasukuni Shrine that Abe visited not only hosted those Class-A war criminals that invaded China--those same people are the ones which attacked Pearl Harbour as well.

And to this day the Japanese are constantly reminded of the two nuclear bombs.

I'm not sure whether the US really feel confident that once you loosen the grip that Japan wouldn't bite back?
 
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