J-XY next generation carrier-borne fighter


vesicles

Colonel
Well, dragons are the most ferocious flying beings known to Chinese. It’s natural that they use dragons to name their planes, especially the most aggressive types like fighters.

They do name their less aggressive types differently. Like their Y-20, they named it after another mythological creature, Kuin Peng (spelling? I’m a little off on the Ping Yin...). This is a giant mythological bird that can cover 10,000 miles with a single flap of his wings. It’s so huge that it can cover the whole mountain top when he has his wings expanded. So not a dragon...

What alternatives would you choose? Eagles, falcons or hawks? Then you would accuse them of stealing the inspiration from the Americans...

I hope you are thinking of naming their fighters after pigeons or sparrows...
I think I figured out the spelling! It’s Kun Peng.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think I figured out the spelling! It’s Kun Peng.
Actually, Kun Peng is both a bird and a sea creature. "Kun" is the giant sea creature, when Kun leaves the water, He/She becomes Peng, a giant bird. This is actually not a traditional Chinese myth, but a literary creation of a 3rd century BC Daoist/philosopher named Zhou Zhuang, commonly known as Zhuangzi. The idea of the Kun Peng is a central theme to Zhuangzi's philosophy, it represents Transformation, Boundlessness (Freedom) of the human individual being. It was never a myth to begin with, but rather a philosophical concept/literary creation that later became an actual mythical creature in folk religion.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Actually, Kun Peng is both a bird and a sea creature. "Kun" is the giant sea creature, when Kun leaves the water, He/She becomes Peng, a giant bird. This is actually not a traditional Chinese myth, but a literary creation of a 3rd century BC Daoist/philosopher named Zhou Zhuang, commonly known as Zhuangzi. The idea of the Kun Peng is a central theme to Zhuangzi's philosophy, it represents Transformation, Boundlessness (Freedom) of the human individual being. It was never a myth to begin with, but rather a philosophical concept/literary creation that later became an actual mythical creature in folk religion.
Yes, I am aware of the history of Kun Peng. I was just trying to give the simplest background info to explain the name, and to support my original argument that the Chinese don’t necessarily always name their planes after dragons.
 

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
As for the whole "Dragon" thing. I don't think it has anything to do with the "dragon" being "the most ferocious being known in China". No, dragon was never that. The idea of the dragon does NOT revolve around the trait "ferocity". In fact, tigers () or sharks (鲛) are more representative of being "ferocious" in Chinese culture.

In traditional China, the word for Chinese Dragon don't get used a lot at all, unless it is referring to the Emperor, or when a Daoist priest and/or a mystic is quoting from the I Ching. This is because Chinese Dragon in Imperial Era China refers almost exclusively to the Mandate of Heaven. Before the Imperial Era, the Chinese Dragon either means the dragon totem, or a large snake, or a divination term in I Ching.

In modern day China, the Mandate of Heaven no longer function as a political belief system. Thus, dragons mostly represent something man-made that is magically magnificent. This is pretty much the mingling of the creature's origin as a totem (man-made symbol), as well as its being something magically powerful and spiritual.
 

Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, dragons are the most ferocious flying beings known to Chinese. It’s natural that they use dragons to name their planes, especially the most aggressive types like fighters.

They do name their less aggressive types differently. Like their Y-20, they named it after another mythological creature, Kuin Peng (spelling? I’m a little off on the Ping Yin...). This is a giant mythological bird that can cover 10,000 miles with a single flap of his wings. It’s so huge that it can cover the whole mountain top when he has his wings expanded. So not a dragon...

What alternatives would you choose? Eagles, falcons or hawks? Then you would accuse them of stealing the inspiration from the Americans...

I hope you are thinking of naming their fighters after pigeons or sparrows...
Nope. I want them named after Chinese mythological creatures. It isn't all just "dragons". It includes Griffins, Gods, Nature spirits etc. A quick google search tells you that China is a treasure trove of mythological creatures ( that, unsurprisingly, found their way into Japanese and other neighboring nation's mythology). As a pioneer/ origin civilization/ culture, china must draw upon these ancient beasts for inspiration when naming.
Another search in google about " Chinese mythological warrior figures" gives even more inspiring names and stories. These are as alluring and inspiring as Graeco-Roman mythological figures that has influenced the west. I don't want it to be just Dragons and Numbers- like " type 1299" ," type 56XX" etc.
For example , IF china ever researches into a "Rods from God" satellite based land attack weapon system, I want them to consider naming it "Ruyi Jingu Bang" - the legendary staff of the infamous mythical character of Monkey King ( Sun Wukong). I'd be depressed if they named it "Type 6789" or something similar.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Nope. I want them named after Chinese mythological creatures. It isn't all just "dragons". It includes Griffins, Gods, Nature spirits etc. A quick google search tells you that China is a treasure trove of mythological creatures ( that, unsurprisingly, found their way into Japanese and other neighboring nation's mythology). As a pioneer/ origin civilization/ culture, china must draw upon these ancient beasts for inspiration when naming.
Another search in google about " Chinese mythological warrior figures" gives even more inspiring names and stories. These are as alluring and inspiring as Graeco-Roman mythological figures that has influenced the west. I don't want it to be just Dragons and Numbers- like " type 1299" ," type 56XX" etc.
For example , IF china ever researches into a "Rods from God" satellite based land attack weapon system, I want them to consider naming it "Ruyi Jingu Bang" - the legendary staff of the infamous mythical character of Monkey King ( Sun Wukong). I'd be depressed if they named it "Type 6789" or something similar.
Based on my own experience, scientists and engineers usually come up with boring names for whatever they are working on. Most likely because coming up with names is the least of what they worry about.

By the time when they have spent decades of their lives working days and nights to finish the project, they are mentally and physically expended. In that exhausted state, they come up with the most boring names.

Another possibility is that the names might not be meaningful to you and me, but extremely meaningful to the people who come up with the names. Most of the time, it would be combinations of some landmark dates, number of failed attempts, number of double bonds, someone’s loved ones’ birthdays etc etc etc. in my opinion, these numbers are more meaningful than some mythological figures because they are more personal.

I have one excellent example. I have a close colleague of mine who is an expert in drug design for pancreatic, lung and colon cancers. One his postdocs worked extremely hard and found a small molecule that might be an encouraging drug. We asked him to name the compound. After weeks of contemplation, he came up “C66”. That sound very boring until he explained how he came up with the name. His daughter was prematurely born in June and she went through 6 complex surgeries to fix the issues. Can you imagine the kind of suffering and pain the parents had gone through during that time? Hence the first 6 is June (the birthday) and the second 6 is six surgeries his daughter went through. Very meaningful and very personal.

You can say that they can ask some more artistic people to name the products. However, that would be very offensive to the scientists and engineers involved with the projects. It’s customary that the people working on the products have sacrificed so much to earn the right to name their baby. Hence the seemingly boring names.

I guess all I’m trying to say is that, although these boring names may be boring to outsiders like you and me, they may be extremely personal to those who gave the names.
 
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Xsizor

Junior Member
Registered Member
Based on my own experience, scientists and engineers usually come up with boring names for whatever they are working on. Most likely because coming up with names is the least of what they worry about.

By the time when they have spent decades of their lives working days and nights to finish the project, they are mentally and physically expended. In that exhausted state, they come up with the most boring names.

Another possibility is that the names might not be meaningful to you and me, but extremely meaningful to the people who come up with the names. Most of the time, it would be combinations of some landmark dates, number of failed attempts, number of double bonds, someone’s loved ones’ birthdays etc etc etc. in my opinion, these numbers are more meaningful than some mythological figures because they are more personal.

I have one excellent example. I have a close colleague of mine who is an expert in drug design for pancreatic, lung and colon cancers. One his postdocs worked extremely hard and found a small molecule that might be an encouraging drug. We asked him to name the compound. After weeks of contemplation, he came up “C66”. That sound very boring until he explained how he came up with the name. His daughter was prematurely born in June and she went through 6 complex surgeries to fix the issues. Can you imagine the kind of suffering and pain the parents had gone through during that time? Hence the first 6 is June (the birthday) and the second 6 is six surgeries his daughter went through. Very meaningful and very personal.

You can say that they can ask some more artistic people to name the products. However, that would be very offensive to the scientists and engineers involved with the projects. It’s customary that the people working on the products have sacrificed so much to earn the right to name their baby. Hence the seemingly boring names.

I guess all I’m trying to say is that, although these boring names may be boring to outsiders like you and me, they may be extremely personal to those who gave the names.
Not trying to derail this thread into something about naming and stuff anymore, heh. But i get what you are saying. However, certain weapon systems are a symbol of national pride and achievement and therefore it'd be a wasted opportunity if they didn't try to be creative with the names ( They can put the creative name in brackets/ make it officially unofficial - for national consumption)
 

vesicles

Colonel
Not trying to derail this thread into something about naming and stuff anymore, heh. But i get what you are saying. However, certain weapon systems are a symbol of national pride and achievement and therefore it'd be a wasted opportunity if they didn't try to be creative with the names ( They can put the creative name in brackets/ make it officially unofficial - for national consumption)
That would be a decision for the people involved with the project, especially the few major contributors. Even those who have lent a helping hand don’t have the right to influence the naming... Like I said before, usually the project lead earns the right to name their baby. Adding some additional creature names would be offensive to the one who named it.

Just imagine how you would feel if we think your kid’s name is boring and we would like to add something to your kid’s name...

Another thing, military culture, no matter which country, is usually very conservative, hence less likely to tolerate “cute” things. To them, boring numbers letters are the way to go.
 

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