J-XY - maybe J-35 - next generation carrier-borne fighter


Atomicfrog

Junior Member
Registered Member
I can never understand this argument. Just because a VLO (stealth) has to engage in WVR combat doesn't mean the pilot or jet failed. There can be many reasons for this to occur. One example can be heavy EW environment causing jets to visually id aircraft before firing to avoid friendly fire. There are many other situations that cause 5th gen stealth to engage in WVR.

Reminds of when US not including guns on their F-4s only to go back later and mount guns on them. J-35 or J-XY not having a side bar to include IR missiles for potent WVR engagement is a mistake IMO and just because the designers studied this and reached a conclusion the benefits for excluding this feature outweighs the option of including it still doesn't change the possibility they reached a wrong conclusion that will only be evident years down into the future. There's a real possibility that in the long future with everyone operating 5th gen and VLO aircraft that BVR engagements ranges will be reduced to the point where some outcomes will be decided in WVR performances of jets, missiles, and pilot.

I'm very surprised J-20 side bar design wasn't included into the J-35 or J-XY. It's such an ingenious design that it's shame J-35 has gone away from it.
The argument is:

If you have a plane that is made to be able to destroy his opponents at bvr because of his electronic suite and stealth, find itself wvr and mitigating all his superiors aspects... well it's like making urban warfare with a MBT.

Yep, you can have close-in weapons but it's clearly not your element and what you are firstly designed to do.

It's a medium fighter.. you need to chose where you put your marbles. So you can either boost your best aspects and what the plane is made for or make your plane less efficient to cover you when these aspects fails. In any case you can design a main weapon bay to acept wvr missiles and saving structural weight.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
I can never understand this argument. Just because a VLO (stealth) has to engage in WVR combat doesn't mean the pilot or jet failed. There can be many reasons for this to occur. One example can be heavy EW environment causing jets to visually id aircraft before firing to avoid friendly fire. There are many other situations that cause 5th gen stealth to engage in WVR.

Reminds of when US not including guns on their F-4s only to go back later and mount guns on them. J-35 or J-XY not having a side bar to include IR missiles for potent WVR engagement is a mistake IMO and just because the designers studied this and reached a conclusion the benefits for excluding this feature outweighs the option of including it still doesn't change the possibility they reached a wrong conclusion that will only be evident years down into the future. There's a real possibility that in the long future with everyone operating 5th gen and VLO aircraft that BVR engagements ranges will be reduced to the point where some outcomes will be decided in WVR performances of jets, missiles, and pilot.

I'm very surprised J-20 side bar design wasn't included into the J-35 or J-XY. It's such an ingenious design that it's shame J-35 has gone away from it.

Yes, being able to hold its own in WVR combat is important, but just where do you expect them to put side weapons bays on the J35?

Stretch the airframe long enough to hold side bays and you are in F22/J20 size territory, in which case you might as well just build more J20s.

Looking over the weapons bay doors of the FC31 mock up, I am actual hopeful that maybe with a little bit more reinforcement and improvement, the J35’s main weapons bay doors can open even at max G manoeuvring. In which case the lack of side weapons bays becomes a much smaller issue since they could just load IRAAMs into the main bay and launch them as I described earlier in WVR combat.
 

reservior dogs

Junior Member
Registered Member
Aren’t stealth aircraft on carriers intended more for strike roles?
Depends on the mission. I think the biggest value for a carrier based stealth aircraft is radar installations and AWACS. Refueling tankers are also high on the list consider that it would be guarded by stealth aircrafts. Once those are out, the other aircrafts such as J15 can take over on strike missions.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Guys ... can we come back to the topic, namely the J-35 itself? Any further speculative discussion on its air wing, mission. pros & cons and political implications could be continued in this thread:

 

gongolongo

New Member
Registered Member
Everyone is talking about WVRAAMs but am I the only one concerned with just 4 PL-15's total? It's incredibly lackluster in CMO (only a simulation but still). F-35's have the potential to be upgraded to 6 AIM-120D's, 4 PL-15's barely seem enough for a single target.
 

siegecrossbow

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Everyone is talking about WVRAAMs but am I the only one concerned with just 4 PL-15's total? It's incredibly lackluster in CMO (only a simulation but still). F-35's have the potential to be upgraded to 6 AIM-120D's, 4 PL-15's barely seem enough for a single target.

J-20 could only carry 4 PL-15s as well.
 

Bltizo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Everyone is talking about WVRAAMs but am I the only one concerned with just 4 PL-15's total? It's incredibly lackluster in CMO (only a simulation but still). F-35's have the potential to be upgraded to 6 AIM-120D's, 4 PL-15's barely seem enough for a single target.

A new BVRAAM is under development that will allow for 6 to be carried in the place of 4 PL-15s.

J-20 and J-XY will both be capable of carrying either 4 PL-15 footprint missiles, or 6 new BVRAAM footprint missiles, in their ventral weapons bays.


No one is talking about BVRAAM magazine size because there is no particular deficiency.
 

Maikeru

Junior Member
Registered Member
A new BVRAAM is under development that will allow for 6 to be carried in the place of 4 PL-15s.

J-20 and J-XY will both be capable of carrying either 4 PL-15 footprint missiles, or 6 new BVRAAM footprint missiles, in their ventral weapons bays.


No one is talking about BVRAAM magazine size because there is no particular deficiency.
TBF the same situation pertained for the F22, it could only fit 4X AIM120C and had to wait for the D version to fit 6.
 

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