J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread


free_6ix9ine

New Member
Registered Member
Can someone explain why the WS-10 is more successful than the WS-13?

Looks like the J-10C, J-11's, J-16s, and J-20s are now mostly transitioned to WS-10 engines for new production aircraft, but the JF-17 is still using the RD-33 and not the WS-13?

I thought the WS-13 is a less powerful engine, shouldn't it be easier to design and produce than the more powerful WS-10?
 

ougoah

Senior Member
Registered Member
Can someone explain why the WS-10 is more successful than the WS-13?

Looks like the J-10C, J-11's, J-16s, and J-20s are now mostly transitioned to WS-10 engines for new production aircraft, but the JF-17 is still using the RD-33 and not the WS-13?

I thought the WS-13 is a less powerful engine, shouldn't it be easier to design and produce than the more powerful WS-10?
Because all PLAAF and PLANAF fighters use AL-31 variant engines and WS-10 variant engines. Both of which are also of similar sizes and weights and onboard the flanker series of fighters. It's China's F110 in functionality. Having one common engine really eases strain on logistics and WS-13 so far is not really applied on anything except for maybe the GJ-11 UCAV. It was developed as a totally copied RD-33 just so Pakistan could have an alternative to RD-33/93 if Russia decided not to sell. J-31 may use a better medium thrust engine in the alleged WS-19 which should be similar in size and weight to the WS-13 but offer improvements due to a decade or so of difference between development timeframes.
 

free_6ix9ine

New Member
Registered Member
Because all PLAAF and PLANAF fighters use AL-31 variant engines and WS-10 variant engines. Both of which are also of similar sizes and weights and onboard the flanker series of fighters. It's China's F110 in functionality. Having one common engine really eases strain on logistics and WS-13 so far is not really applied on anything except for maybe the GJ-11 UCAV. It was developed as a totally copied RD-33 just so Pakistan could have an alternative to RD-33/93 if Russia decided not to sell. J-31 may use a better medium thrust engine in the alleged WS-19 which should be similar in size and weight to the WS-13 but offer improvements due to a decade or so of difference between development timeframes.
Sure, but there is still no excuse to not finish development on a simpler engine, when the WS-10 is nearing maturity. If China wants the JF-17 to become export success, they can't rely on Russia on such a critical component.
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
Sure, but there is still no excuse to not finish development on a simpler engine, when the WS-10 is nearing maturity. If China wants the JF-17 to become export success, they can't rely on Russia on such a critical component.
And why should China expand limited budget to developed WS 13 when JF 17 is not in service with PLAAF? Pakistan does not want WS 13 engine she choose RD93 engine. China better spend the money bringing WS 19 in service because it is better engine with better performance and take advantage of the latest development in Engine engineering
 

ougoah

Senior Member
Registered Member
Sure, but there is still no excuse to not finish development on a simpler engine, when the WS-10 is nearing maturity. If China wants the JF-17 to become export success, they can't rely on Russia on such a critical component.
Huh?? Finish development? And you know the WS-13 isn't finished in development? What makes you think that? I haven't seen any info on WS-13 except for the fact that it is essentially a copy of RD-33 done back in the day as a small side project only so there is a bargaining chip in case Russia bans the export of RD-93 to equip the JF-17. The entire effort was mainly a hedge against Russia essentially scraping the entire JF-17 program all the way from Moscow in a single decision. It's possible that Russia only agreed to supply Pakistan with the RD-93 solely because the WS-13 existed. China would lose out in this a bit because it wouldn't be able to supply Pakistan with an "Pakistani" fighter whereas Pakistan would lose a lot more. Russia can miss out on those sales if India happily makes up for it. With the WS-13, the Russians could choose to make the RD-93 sales or choose to buckle under Indian lobbying or they could just make a few hundred million (gross profit) by supplying the hundreds of RD-93s. China had no real use for the WS-13 and never really wanted or needed to complete it if it was incomplete. So this understanding of the situation is quite flawed.

For the "export success" part, it's not a simple black and white! It is not simply a matter of; oh I have my own engines to equip and you can now buy it without worrying about supply restrictions. Customers don't line up to buy JF-17 immediately after China declares WS-13 or WS-19 operational and reliable. It's a step by step, year on year development, and after all is said and reviewed, then if a customer truly requires a WS-13 or whatever non-Russian alternative, only then should it be finalised. You don't start a ridiculous financial venture with the philosophy of "build it and they will come". That's going to result in failure far too often for such an investment to be justified.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Guys ... neither the WS-13 nor the JF-17 have anything to do with the J-15. Continue in the engine thread.
 

MrCrazyBoyRavi

New Member
Registered Member
And why should China expand limited budget to developed WS 13 when JF 17 is not in service with PLAAF? Pakistan does not want WS 13 engine she choose RD93 engine. China better spend the money bringing WS 19 in service because it is better engine with better performance and take advantage of the latest development in Engine engineering
Wc back heindrik. You were missed
 

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