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siegecrossbow

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
There are many people who try to mock India because India buys a lot of weapons from abroad, but they are ignoring the fact that buying weapons from abroad brings many benefits to India and it is not forever. .

India is backward and incompetent, so it tries to buy everything it needs and can. He spared no money, in order to close the gap with the great powers, using the money to address the weakness of the lack of skills, experience and capacity in the local military industry.
For India at present, technology is more important than money, and money can easily be replenished by surpluses from exports.

The Beiyang fleet also tried to buy everything to keep up with the Great Powers of the time. We all know how that ended.
 

FangYuan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Definitely not with IJN.
Procurement of weapons, localization, enhancements and creation of their own designs make the IJN one of the most powerful naval superpowers in the world.
The IJN's problem was that they encountered the enemy, the United States, a superpower with superior resources, population, and industrial power.
 

Skywatcher

Captain
The logistics and maintenance nightmare is exaggerated. Most likely it is a deliberate act of propaganda with the aim of misleading everyone and making the world underestimate the true power of India.

India has a large number of STEM graduates, they have a GDP of more than 2 trillion and foreign currency reserves of more than 600 billion. That means they have no problem with money and manpower, not to mention India's labor cost is very cheap.
India has a lot of good STEM graduates, but they're of little use to India since 1) a lot of them go overseas 2) Indian institutions (which are already few enough to begin with) are not good at running R&D programs in general, now or then.
 

FangYuan

Junior Member
Registered Member
India has a lot of good STEM graduates, but they're of little use to India since 1) a lot of them go overseas 2) Indian institutions (which are already few enough to begin with) are not good at running R&D programs in general, now or then.

The West and Russia also make the same mistake when they underestimate Japan, and later China. In the early stages, China and Japan had the same problem as India, and then they solved it.

Yes, everything you say is true, but we are talking about "India will have nightmares because it buys weapons from....". It's not, it's greatly exaggerated and even if it is true, it won't be true forever. That is why India should not be underestimated.
 
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Skywatcher

Captain
The West and Russia also make the same mistake when they underestimate Japan, and later China. In the early stages, China and Japan had the same problem as India, and then they solved it.

Yes, everything you say is true, but we are talking about "India will have nightmares because it buys weapons from....". It's not, it's greatly exaggerated and even if it is true, it won't be true forever. That is why India should not be underestimated.
India will have to spend decades building up it's equivalent to the various Academies of, say CASC and CASIC (or completely retool their existing R&D institutions to deliver results) or Huawei in the private sector (since Ambani seems to be more interested in rent seeking than actually delivering added value back to his country).
 

sheogorath

Senior Member
Registered Member
The West and Russia also make the same mistake when they underestimate Japan, and later China. In the early stages, China and Japan had the same problem as India, and then they solved it.

Thing is, China and Japan followed a planned and logical path taking into consideration their current capabilities, what capabilities needed to be developed to achieve their goals and how to improve the living condition of their population in order to maintain support for the planned goals and cooperation.

India seems to be applying the Gulf countries logic of just throwing money at stuff, hoping something will stick while doing jackshit for the population other than stoking racial and religious tensions.

We are talking of a country that still has a massive problem of access to something as basic as toilets and public sanitation infraestructure. Then you have the backwards system of Castes, which does nothing for national cohesion and advancement.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
India will have to spend decades building up it's equivalent to the various Academies of, say CASC and CASIC (or completely retool their existing R&D institutions to deliver results) or Huawei in the private sector (since Ambani seems to be more interested in rent seeking than actually delivering added value back to his country).
Decades is along time when a Revolution in Military Affairs (RMA) is coming in 1-2 decades. India better hurry up and start doing real work and reform its defence industries otherwise it will face serious problems in the future.

Some small steps have been taken, but overall, India has advanced much less than i thought it would in 2010
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
There are many people who try to mock India because India buys a lot of weapons from abroad, but they are ignoring the fact that buying weapons from abroad brings many benefits to India and it is not forever. .

India is backward and incompetent, so it tries to buy everything it needs and can. He spared no money, in order to close the gap with the great powers, using the money to address the weakness of the lack of skills, experience and capacity in the local military industry.
For India at present, technology is more important than money, and money can easily be replenished by surpluses from exports.
Only true to some extend.

India certainly has the option of buying from all over the globe. Except for the Chinese MIC, India can buy from MIC of any country on the planet. The sudden gains in capability is only a short term deal. It even is an impediment to the overall long term development towards India's great power vision.

Every penny or rupee that India invests on foreign equipment is a rupee taken away from economic and social development. This is serious especially for an inefficient democracy.

China is not spared from this predicament. Every yuan China spends on defence is a yuan taken away from Chinese economic and social upliftment. Developing countries are vulnerable and can fall prey to the trap of Defence spending. One can already see how Pakistan suffers from shoddy development and a huge percent of its budget being allocated towards Defence. India's situation is not as grave but isn't good either.

I've yet to see meaningful long term benefits to Indian defence industry from this perpetual shopping spree habit. It usually demands ToT ( transfer of technology) and I think only Russia has managed to help India in somewhat meaningful manner - Brahmos, Nuke Subs etc.

But even then, India struggles to develop subsonic cruise missiles ( having claimed to have got ToT for Supersonic from Russia), Tanks, Aircrafts etc. India must be wishing that it never got access to international weapon markets and be constrained like China was.
 

FangYuan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Only true to some extend.
Sure. Buying foreign weapons is a double-edged sword. It has good and bad sides.

India certainly has the option of buying from all over the globe. Except for the Chinese MIC, India can buy from MIC of any country on the planet. The sudden gains in capability is only a short term deal. It even is an impediment to the overall long term development towards India's great power vision.
May be true. But the biggest problem with people who are too smart is that they can't see the hole right under their feet. India is not so smart, it is to their advantage, they need to solve the immediate problems, while continuing with their long-term plans.

Every penny or rupee that India invests on foreign equipment is a rupee taken away from economic and social development. This is serious especially for an inefficient democracy.

China is not spared from this predicament. Every yuan China spends on defence is a yuan taken away from Chinese economic and social upliftment. Developing countries are vulnerable and can fall prey to the trap of Defence spending. One can already see how Pakistan suffers from shoddy development and a huge percent of its budget being allocated towards Defence. India's situation is not as grave but isn't good either.

I've yet to see meaningful long term benefits to Indian defence industry from this perpetual shopping spree habit. It usually demands ToT ( transfer of technology) and I think only Russia has managed to help India in somewhat meaningful manner - Brahmos, Nuke Subs etc.
China bought Su-27, Kilo class, S-300... China was not rich at that time. But it was the right decision. China can save a lot of money to invest in the economy and society, if he decides to wait 10 or 20 years. But China choose to buy. The same is true for India.

But even then, India struggles to develop subsonic cruise missiles ( having claimed to have got ToT for Supersonic from Russia), Tanks, Aircrafts etc. India must be wishing that it never got access to international weapon markets and be constrained like China was.

Sadly, it's not good news for China or Pakistan. India faces many difficulties, but that does not mean they will give up. India is like a bicycle, the speed may be slow, but it keeps going. China needs to be careful and not look down on them.
 

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