Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.


ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Indians tried making INSAS but that rifle was returned from Nepal due to the INSAS being a total dud. They don't have the machining and production skills to produce it with high tolerances and accuracy within a certain production rate and price.

This is a microcosm of why India is not a recipient of any true technology production. Let alone getting to the stage where they can copy where appropriate and improve their own. Same with their cars (arguably the only tech industry they actually have... military doesn't count because they don't really have an MIC and what they have is comically shit - barely able to copy 1970s level tech e.g. arjun, tejass, artillery that breaks, and 1970s cruise missiles like nirbhay). No technology that is remotely competitive and no production advantages. Pricing is still crap for the quality offered and absolutely no niche strength.
 

Gloire_bb

Senior Member
Registered Member
I'd still like to think that all this is due to Indian economy not doing well. They'd have absolutely bought more SigSaurs but the cost might've become prohibitive.
Yep, as far as I understand, this is exactly what happens. SIGs for units stationed on the borders, 203s for everyone else.
Curious, but perhaps an idea to arm these units during peacetime with full-power battle rifles makes sense.
 

Gloire_bb

Senior Member
Registered Member
But AK-103 is a quite decent rifle right? perhaps not as good as QBZ-191, but good enough

Just interesting that India decided to use 7.62×39

Now they have 7.62×39, 5.56×45 and 7.62×51 ... what a mess :rolleyes:
5.56 is being thrown away from line units. So it's going to be 7.62x39 and 7.62x51.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
But AK-103 is a quite decent rifle right? perhaps not as good as QBZ-191, but good enough

Just interesting that India decided to use 7.62×39

Now they have 7.62×39, 5.56×45 and 7.62×51 ... what a mess :rolleyes:
Maybe it's because India is shifting its focus away from COIN and on to fighting modern armed forces out in the open terrain.

Anyway, lt sure would sting to be the nation not able to develop a competent rifle. Necessity is the mother of inventions and I guess India not having a history of collective nationwide armed struggle may have led it to be lackluster in this sector ( among many others).
 

Sardaukar20

Senior Member
Registered Member
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However, the entire project hit a roadblock over price negotiations as the OFB was quoting a higher price than the Russian product actually cost in import.

The higher price was because of the extra hours it will take to manufacture the rifle in India and other issues including Transfer of Technology and the 100 per cent localisation of sources for the product.
More expensive to manufacture in India than to import from Russia? Haven't we heard of this before? I can somewhat understand for Sukhoi jets. But for Kalashnikov Rifles? What is so cutting edge about rifle technology that India would need Transfer of Technology, and have trouble sourcing local component makers? Its not like India had no experience with designing and manufacturing assault rifles (INSAS).

The defence ministry had to set up a committee to look into this issue and a resolution was arrived at.
Yeah, just one sentence that waved all those problems off. What resolution? Lower price? Managed to find local suppliers? Or maybe just sweeping things under the rug again?

The big question is. As of 2021, India who already have decades of experience with manufacturing the INSAS rifles still needs to import assault rifles from Russia, and license-produce the same rifles at higher prices than direct importation. I do understand that Transfer of Technology is not free. But as of 2021, does India Superpower still need Transfer of Technology for assault rifle technology?

So-called 'lesser' countries like Singapore, Iran, Brazil, Turkey, South Africa, and Argentina have all designed and manufactured their own assault rifles for quite awhile. Sure, their assault rifle designs do have faults. But we don't see them flip-flopping on assault rifles like India. They instead, have all worked on improving their existing designs, or just coming up with new designs. Is India unable to do that with their INSAS rifles? Yeah, I know the real reasons alright. LOL!
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
More expensive to manufacture in India than to import from Russia? Haven't we heard of this before? I can somewhat understand for Sukhoi jets. But for Kalashnikov Rifles? What is so cutting edge about rifle technology that India would need Transfer of Technology, and have trouble sourcing local component makers? Its not like India had no experience with designing and manufacturing assault rifles (INSAS).


Yeah, just one sentence that waved all those problems off. What resolution? Lower price? Managed to find local suppliers? Or maybe just sweeping things under the rug again?

The big question is. As of 2021, India who already have decades of experience with manufacturing the INSAS rifles still needs to import assault rifles from Russia, and license-produce the same rifles at higher prices than direct importation. I do understand that Transfer of Technology is not free. But as of 2021, does India Superpower still need Transfer of Technology for assault rifle technology?

So-called 'lesser' countries like Singapore, Iran, Brazil, Turkey, South Africa, and Argentina have all designed and manufactured their own assault rifles for quite awhile. Sure, their assault rifle designs do have faults. But we don't see them flip-flopping on assault rifles like India. They instead, have all worked on improving their existing designs, or just coming up with new designs. Is India unable to do that with their INSAS rifles? Yeah, I know the real reasons alright. LOL!
Sometimes there is just no helping facepalming at Indians…

On the topic of tech transfer… the Indians are constantly giving China shit on “forced” tech transfer… yet Indians does the exact same thing but fails to learn anything as evidenced by their failure to produce anything competent “indigenously” without massive input from others, either technical or material, even then the term competent is questionable, or via “joint research programs/ventures” where such programs are no better than tech transfers…

So what is there to transfer from a standard AK anymore… the general mechanisms and layout of a standard AK hasn’t changed significantly since the very first AK, apart from maybe some special models like AK 107, the production methods and materials… are Indians so incompetent that they can’t even adapt modern production methods and modern materials to a decades old design, I guess not since they still require tech transfer despite basically producing an AK in the form of the INSAS for like 2 decades… tho I guess it’s unfair, since they still managed to fail with the INSAS…

What’s more mind boggling is that the Indians are spending time and resources developing and trailing their own designed SMGs, 2 of them in fact, and one SMG caliber in the 5.56x30… yet they are either unwilling or failed at perfecting an AK derivative, like what Israel, Poland, Czechs, Finland and Hungary managed to do at one point of another in the past, never mind all the other “non-SupaPowa” that has managed to develop their own rifles, whether they are derivatives or otherwise.

There are some serious issues with the Indian priorities… small arms is like the lowest point of entry into military production nowadays and somehow they still managed to fail with one of the simplest decades old design, then refuse to stick with it and improve it instead seeking a tech transfer for what they basically already know how to do, I mean what are they expecting from the tech transfer at this point… an AK’s mechanism is already basically the simplest it can get… unless they are looking for a WW2/early Cold War era open bolt mechanism without fire selection, there really isn’t anything more simple then an AK…
 
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Gloire_bb

Senior Member
Registered Member
The big question is. As of 2021, India who already have decades of experience with manufacturing the INSAS rifles still needs to import assault rifles from Russia, and license-produce the same rifles at higher prices than direct importation. I do understand that Transfer of Technology is not free. But as of 2021, does India Superpower still need Transfer of Technology for assault rifle technology?
It's worth noting that half of the western alliance now uses foreign rifles. That includes USMC and now even France has given up.
 

Mt1701d

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's worth noting that half of the western alliance now uses foreign rifles. That includes USMC and now even France has given up.
I don’t think you can equate the 2 tho… the US in particular has never been shy about using foreign designed platforms in one capacity or another so long as the company is registered and has production in the US…

As for France, I think it’s only a matter of time before there would be a standardisation of arms within the EU and if my memory serves the tender for the replacement of the Famas was EU only… plus they have also been using foreign small arms in one capacity or another…

Whereas India has made a huge deal about made in India and indigenisation as well as sells of indigenous Indian arms overseas… whether it’s small arms or tanks or jet fighters… so I would say that the situation between the US and France vs India is different…
 

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