Ideal chinese carrier thread

[Gollevainen]

To continue the succesfull series of threads by Planeman, lets move on to the "big ships"

So your task is to develope an ideal aircraft carrier for china...

My suggestion is based to the same "what if" idea as my previous ones.

So here's a project 086A.

background
It's dates back to the 70's when china seek replacement for it's earlier, WWII era carriers (project 085). During the late 60's there were several suggestions made, ranging form 100 000 ton super carriers to small VSTOL carriers (in the event of latest innovations aboard). 80 000 ton carrier was favoured by the navy's carrier advocates but during the same period a dramatic shift in the PLAN happened and the nuclear submarine advocates started to enjoy brief but cruical political influence. (The old Mao Zedong had almoust an obcession to SSNs in his later years) As result of this, the new carrier plan was in trouple and there were not enough funds to build the 80 000 ton nuclear powered carrier as fisrt toughted. The existing carriers were modernized instead.
This was not a long-lasting solution and trough out the early 70's a small but presistent "carrier-wing" kept pushing on a new carrier. As the political balance changed in the late 70's (Mao Zedongs retirement) the carrier plans recieved a ressuerection. Politicans weren't however still willing to fund a super carrier so new resizing of the existing projects begun. There were several variants and the one ultimately choosen was the one that became the project 086A.

Technical data
Displacement: 55.000 tons standart, 60 000 tons full load
Lenght: 265 m wl, 291 m oa
Beam: 32 m (max flightdeck withd: 60 m)
Draught: 9.5 m
Machinery: 4 steam turbines, 200,000 shp;= 30 kn
Armament: 8 x Type 37A CIWS, 2 x LY-60 SAM

Airgroup: 21 J-9H fighters, 12 JH-7B Fighter-Bombers, 6 SH-6 ASW planes, 3 SH-6Z AEW planes, 5 Z-9 helicopters.

Laid down: 7.6. 1983
Launched: 11.11. 1986
Completed: 3.1. 1988

Notes:

Altough great improvement to the previous chinese carriers, the pr. 086 wasen't alltogether succesfull. It was plagued by the same reason as in so many other warship designs around the world: Politicans saying the last word. It was still however the best possiple solution to fit the 55 000 tons set by the central commitee of the CCP. There was orginally a plans to build two ships, but wisely, the navy seddled for just one unit Mao Zedong [81]. The seccond unit was replaced with the new design, pr. 087 but thats a different story...

Ps. To those who doesen't know, this drawing is based on the pr. 1153

 

[bd popeye]

Excellent design Golly. Excellent. Too bad it's just an idea. I'm sure this drawing will wind up as the latest PLAN design in a Chinese forum.

One thing ..That elevator in the middle foward part of the flight deck would be a real hinderance to flight operations. It's useless when launching and recovering aircraft. It would have to remain up during "flight ops". I know I was on CVA-19 and it had a elevator in a similar position.

That's OK...

The hangar deck appears and is in my USN eye..too small. Those aircraft are really crowded into that hangar. In my opinion a hangar should have enough room for a little more than half the aircraft in the airwing.

6 SH-6 ASW planes, 3 SH-6Z AEW planes

Are these part of the "what if sceniaro"...I only ask because I've never heard of them.

 

[Gollevainen]

Well this design is basicly a "chinese" version of the apportive Soviet pr. 1153 which was one of the forefathers of the Kuznetsov/Varyag.

The fact that the aviation facilities are too small are basicly becouse the soviets didn't have any practical expereince of operating conventional carriers and thus they didn't pay enough attention to these factors. In my hypotetical "what-if" world, the chinese were forced to choose this design as it was the biggest one allowed by the politicans. The follower which I attend to draw next is however much wider and the flightdeck and hangar area is considerably increased.

The planes are also "what-ifs", based on the Soviet Beriev P-42 ASW aircraft which was designed pararel to the project 1153 and like the ship it never left the design board. It's very similar aircraft to S-3 Viking.

 

[bd popeye]

The follower which I attend to draw next is however much wider and the flightdeck and hangar area is considerably increased.

The planes are also "what-ifs", based on the Soviet Beriev P-42 ASW aircraft which was designed pararel to the project 1153 and like the ship it never left the design board. It's very similar aircraft to S-3 Viking.

Thanks Golly. So you based it on what the USSR was planning and may have shared with the PRC. Excellent. I'm looking foward to your next drawing.

If you could post a pic of the Soviet Beriev P-42 ASW I would really apperiacte it!

 

[Gollevainen]

No it's more like I've been playing around this idea of what if china was a major player in the whole 20th century and to fullfill the caps in chinese warship design, I've used unfinished and cancelled soviet projects as a bases of my fleet.

here's one from the P-42

 

[bd popeye]

Thanks ..man i could reek some havoc in my yahoo USN groups with those pics.

The Soviet Beriev P-42 ASW looks almost identical to a S-3 Viking.

Thanks Golly!

 

[BuSOF]

Hello, guys! I saw a picture months ago of a training platform resembling an aircraft carrier, but made of concrete and I'm trying to find it now but it's an awfull lot of pages I need to go through and I cannot find it. Could you help?

 

[planeman]

As Golly will agree, the wave piercing catamarans are the way forward!

Sun Tzu class CV
30,000t, 250m

Air wing:
8-12 x Su-33MKKI multirole fighters
12-14 x UCAVs
3 x AEW UAVs
4 x Ka-28 Helix ASW
2 x Z-9 SAR/Util

Weapons:
5 x Type-730
48 x Shtil
8 x YJ-62 under ski-jump

 

[bd popeye]

That ships about the size of a Tarawa class LHA.

How about some more drawings so I can better see your idea? You know flight deck, position of elevators and hangar deck arrangement.

Why a catamaran type hull?

 

[Gollevainen]

of those catamaran based carrier Ideas I have seen, non had have hull mounted Hangar...thats raises some concerns over me. I need to check out why....