Guided artillery munition within the PLA

Totoro

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Does anyone have any photos or textual sources which could serve as indications that the PLA Ground Force uses any of the following:

A) 122mm satellite guided MRL rounds

B) 122mm satellite guided artillery rounds
 

Clark Gap

Junior Member
Registered Member
From Henri K blog
The new rocket guided by the Beidou system of the Chinese MRLS PHL-03 has a range exceeding 100 km.

DmE1cBkUYAAw2jc.jpg

122mm satellite guided MRL rounds is very common. But no image of satellite guided artillery rounds in service, only export products. I do not know why, they only use guided artillery shell.
 

Totoro

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No PLA munitions photographed still. Or articles/publications about their use available.

As for export oriented models in the images above, I'm seeing 155mm arty rounds there, 120mm mortar rounds and 107mm MRL round.
(of course big caliber MRL rounds (200+mm) would have satnav guidance, that's quite old news)

So my specific question about 122mm caliber rounds still remains unanswered.
 

Clark Gap

Junior Member
Registered Member
No PLA munitions photographed still. Or articles/publications about their use available.

As for export oriented models in the images above, I'm seeing 155mm arty rounds there, 120mm mortar rounds and 107mm MRL round.
(of course big caliber MRL rounds (200+mm) would have satnav guidance, that's quite old news)

So my specific question about 122mm caliber rounds still remains unanswered.

Sorry, I missed one work. It should be "they only use laser guided artillery shell." So no one found any picture about GPS/INS guided 155/122mm artillery shell in service.
 

Totoro

Major
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So, another question. Ideally, it would be: how many guided mrl rockets with a reach of 200-300 km does china have ? Estimate within an order of magnitude would suffice...

But i am afraid that without answering the same question about number of such mrl launchers is hard to attain. So, how many such mrl launcher vehicles (200-300 km range) does pla army has in service right now?
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
So, another question. Ideally, it would be: how many guided mrl rockets with a reach of 200-300 km does china have ? Estimate within an order of magnitude would suffice...

But i am afraid that without answering the same question about number of such mrl launchers is hard to attain. So, how many such mrl launcher vehicles (200-300 km range) does pla army has in service right now?
you are talking about PHL16? seeing as they were first revealed 3 years ago there are probably a handful of them now. though not much is being reported.
 

Totoro

Major
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Yeah, phl16. After going through the army orbat over at China defense forum, i counted 3 arty brigades where photos of phl16 were noted.
Two just had some unsorted images, but the third one had a detailed roster suggesting 18 phl16 launchers.

In addition, a separate image of a phl16 under the Xinjiang command exists, suggesting that their sole arty brigade also got phl16.

Since the pla does seem to feature a variety of configurations between arty units, it is far from likely that every single brigade has as many as 18 launchers.

That being said, if one assumes an average of 12 launchers per brigade, a total of 48 phl16 may be plausible so far.

Assuming even just a single 370mm missile load per launcher, that's 480 precision strike missiles. Though it seems likely there would be at least a few loads worth of missiles per launcher produced.

Separate issue: has there been any decent source mentioning 300mm rockets for phl16 or phl03 getting a variant which has a 200 km range?

I know other systems using 300mm had those mentioned, like the polonez, but i am asking about phl03 or phl16 in particular.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yeah, phl16. After going through the army orbat over at China defense forum, i counted 3 arty brigades where photos of phl16 were noted.
Two just had some unsorted images, but the third one had a detailed roster suggesting 18 phl16 launchers.

In addition, a separate image of a phl16 under the Xinjiang command exists, suggesting that their sole arty brigade also got phl16.

Since the pla does seem to feature a variety of configurations between arty units, it is far from likely that every single brigade has as many as 18 launchers.

That being said, if one assumes an average of 12 launchers per brigade, a total of 48 phl16 may be plausible so far.

Assuming even just a single 370mm missile load per launcher, that's 480 precision strike missiles. Though it seems likely there would be at least a few loads worth of missiles per launcher produced.

Separate issue: has there been any decent source mentioning 300mm rockets for phl16 or phl03 getting a variant which has a 200 km range?

I know other systems using 300mm had those mentioned, like the polonez, but i am asking about phl03 or phl16 in particular.
i dont think 300mm rockets can reach 200km. 370mm rockets are rumoured to have a range of 220km.
 

Totoro

Major
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Several things I'd like to mention.
Firstly, an error in math in my previous post. I mistakenly multiplied each phl16 launcher by 10, instead of by 8. Of course, phl16 carries 8 370mm missiles, not 10. So in the event there are (just) 48 launchers, then the minimum missile count is not 480 but 384.

Secondly, I am not sure about 300mm missiles not being able to reach 200km.
370mm ones used in phl16 don't really have proper sources for their ranges. Yes, 220 km is sometimes mentioned by various blogs. But so is 350 km, with the 220 figure being written as miles. But none of that really means much without a proper source.

Now, we can't know the range of PLA's weapons but we do have circumstantial evidence suggesting the technology might be there even for 300mm missiles to reach 200 km. We know that the GMLRS-ER rounds, which are smaller than phl03 and phl16 300mm rounds, both in diameter and length, can reach 150 km. Those have more or less finished development and are scheduled to enter production this year.

We also have the Polonez system, used by Belarus. During their military parade, it was announced that their Polonez can reach 200 km. Their ztem company states in their catalogue Polonez has a 200 km reach, with Polonez-M having a 290 km reach.
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And, as we know, Polonez is in reality based on Chinese A200/A300 300mm missiles.

This is a missile fired from Polonez
1672945214209.png

And this is one fired from PHL03
2222.jpg

Now, those are clearly two different missiles, details wise. (For one, A200/300 seem to be two stage missiles) That being said, they're still very similar in length and practically identical in diameter. Meaning that it's not very far fetched to ask the question: could the same missile used in polonez be also available to phl03 and phl16? Especially the phl16, with its more modular approach, might be a plausible fit.

Of course, we don't really know. There are no sources out there to confirm it either way.

We do, however, know that PLA has 14 artillery brigades. Most of those feature 12 phl03 launchers (though there is one brigade with 18 and one with at least 14 launchers photographed)

IF phl03 does have the option to use A200 or A300 tech derived missile - and if PLA has at least one load worth of such missiles per launcher, then suddenly it would be quite plausible that PLA has at least 10 (brigades without phl16) times 12 (minimum launchers per brigade) times 12 (tubes per launcher) missiles, for a total of 1440. Plus the 480 from four phl16 brigades. Close to 2000 missiles, on a single load per launcher assumed.

Not sure if A200/A300 missiles come with fins folded out of their tubes. If so, then the compatibility with phl03 tubes might be even greater.
 
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