Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

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Bellum_Romanum

Major
Registered Member
I found this discussion with respect to the paradigm shift of American strategy towards China from engagement to pretty much all out (minus kinetic war) intense rivalry illuminating, since the presenter discussed the confluence and heavy contingent of "China experts" that proliferates in Washington D.C. from the so called engagers to the most anti-China hawk that's pretty much invaded and control the China narrative that's emanating from Washington.

The Trifecta of Business, Military, Press relationship in shaping and changing the narrative on China we're all witnessing today speaks about the short term thinking of Washington, combined with their assumptive belief on the American manifest destiny that it's their divine providence to shape the world and countries accordingly. Take for example that it was only as early as 2015 when then National Strategy for China was released under the 2nd Obama administration where it spelled out the intention of engaging China long term and managing their competition within constraints to avoid potential Military conflict. Only for the strategy to change 2 years later under a new regime of Pres. Trump essentially doing an about face by making China not just a pressing threat but a threat that must be dealt with for existential reasons. And the once marginalized "China hawks/experts" were now manning the control of the ship and the academics, politicians, Military branches that wants to see their respective careers, departments blossom $$ have to jump aboard the anti-China bandwagon.

Anyway, I digress...hope a lot of the folks here manage to take the time to watch this discussion.

 

horse

Captain
Registered Member
I found this discussion with respect to the paradigm shift of American strategy towards China from engagement to pretty much all out (minus kinetic war) intense rivalry illuminating, since the presenter discussed the confluence and heavy contingent of "China experts" that proliferates in Washington D.C. from the so called engagers to the most anti-China hawk that's pretty much invaded and control the China narrative that's emanating from Washington.

Okay, did not watch the whole video yet, probably will do it later, just saw the first couple of minutes, and it was by a professor of sociology, and he studied why this community of China watchers in America changed their minds.

To me, it is a simple story. On the surface it is.

This is the "End of History" being undone.

After the Berlin Wall fell, and the USSR collapsed, Francis Fukuyama came out with the idea that the End of History had arrived, and that Liberal democracy with capitalism was the fate of mankind and womankind.

My thoughts of that at that time, was that it was not relevant.

If the end of history had arrived in the west, well, that is their problem, and not China's problem.

Well, the End of History, 30 years later for the world, did not arrive.

It took a few years for the American intelligentsia to arrive at that conclusion. So that was the end, of the End of History theory.

Now they are clueless of what to do next, and their underwear all in knots.

That is not exactly China's problem either. But if they wanna make an issue of it, China will compete and reciprocate.

UAE. A choice between F-35 or Huawei 5G gear. What did they do?


The Americans are totally unprepared to take on China.

The Americans have this peculiar habit, they have a habit of starting things they cannot finish.

Then the Americans talk non-stop.

China plays along.

:D
 

horse

Captain
Registered Member
The even older Marxist theories, I am not a Marxist, (well, maybe I am, lol, I don't know) that Imperialism always leads to war.

The Americans are still kind of like an Imperial power, like the old days of the Age of Imperialism.

They do not go around invading everybody and set up traditional colonies like the British Empire. The Americans go around enforcing rules that puts America first.

It is not really Imperialism, but I have no idea how else we accurately describe it. Just say it is sort of like Imperialism. A new form of it, maybe, who knows.

------------------- -----------------

Now the Chinese, the CCP really are Marxist!

And they know Imperialism can only lead to war!

So the CCP was fully prepared to take on the Americans, or Imperialist, in every which way.

To say China is not doing anything, is simply incorrect. The Chinese are Marxist, the Marxist believe Imperialism only leads to war, and the Americans are Imperialist-like even though they deny it. CCP knows what is going on.

That is why this game is interesting.

It is a game of everything, haha!

Fun to watch.

We can get banned for getting too much into it, lol.

Hope people return, we need the laughs.

Hehe.

:p:D
 

victoon

Junior Member
Registered Member
I found this discussion with respect to the paradigm shift of American strategy towards China from engagement to pretty much all out (minus kinetic war) intense rivalry illuminating, since the presenter discussed the confluence and heavy contingent of "China experts" that proliferates in Washington D.C. from the so called engagers to the most anti-China hawk that's pretty much invaded and control the China narrative that's emanating from Washington.

The Trifecta of Business, Military, Press relationship in shaping and changing the narrative on China we're all witnessing today speaks about the short term thinking of Washington, combined with their assumptive belief on the American manifest destiny that it's their divine providence to shape the world and countries accordingly. Take for example that it was only as early as 2015 when then National Strategy for China was released under the 2nd Obama administration where it spelled out the intention of engaging China long term and managing their competition within constraints to avoid potential Military conflict. Only for the strategy to change 2 years later under a new regime of Pres. Trump essentially doing an about face by making China not just a pressing threat but a threat that must be dealt with for existential reasons. And the once marginalized "China hawks/experts" were now manning the control of the ship and the academics, politicians, Military branches that wants to see their respective careers, departments blossom $$ have to jump aboard the anti-China bandwagon.

Anyway, I digress...hope a lot of the folks here manage to take the time to watch this discussion.

What an informative piece of research and such incredibly thoughtful discussions afterwards. I have long admired the tiny fraction of American academics in the geopolitical sphere that have achieved deep understanding of the world while being able to maintain objectivity and a humanist principle. I am particularly fond of Goldstein, who was in the audience and made some really insightful comments (others were great too), because he can so eloquently cut through those ideology covered mumbo jumbo to defend hegemony.

On the other hand, what the discussion pointed out is something very troubling. The US military/interstrial/intellegence/thinktank sphere has large vested interests in the US hegemony and wars. Normally I wouldn't care because it just lead to its own demise. But now they are squarely pointing at China. One can't help but worry what future is ahead of us. Just look at this:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The way they talk about nuclear war like breakfast and basically try to leverage the US' geographical advantage for large scale wars to protect whatever US interests is just evil. There is nothing more dangerous than a righteous man and there are just so many of them in the US.
 

ansy1968

Colonel
Registered Member
The even older Marxist theories, I am not a Marxist, (well, maybe I am, lol, I don't know) that Imperialism always leads to war.

The Americans are still kind of like an Imperial power, like the old days of the Age of Imperialism.

They do not go around invading everybody and set up traditional colonies like the British Empire. The Americans go around enforcing rules that puts America first.

It is not really Imperialism, but I have no idea how else we accurately describe it. Just say it is sort of like Imperialism. A new form of it, maybe, who knows.

------------------- -----------------

Now the Chinese, the CCP really are Marxist!

And they know Imperialism can only lead to war!

So the CCP was fully prepared to take on the Americans, or Imperialist, in every which way.

To say China is not doing anything, is simply incorrect. The Chinese are Marxist, the Marxist believe Imperialism only leads to war, and the Americans are Imperialist-like even though they deny it. CCP knows what is going on.

That is why this game is interesting.

It is a game of everything, haha!

Fun to watch.

We can get banned for getting too much into it, lol.

Hope people return, we need the laughs.

Hehe.

:p:D
@horse bro about Francis Fukuyama idea that the End of History had arrived meaning "Self Implosion or System Collapse"? Like the Roman's before the heavy weight of the empire The Center simply collapse leading us to The Dark Ages. You can see the comparison and it's eerily similar.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Major
Registered Member
What an informative piece of research and such incredibly thoughtful discussions afterwards. I have long admired the tiny fraction of American academics in the geopolitical sphere that have achieved deep understanding of the world while being able to maintain objectivity and a humanist principle. I am particularly fond of Goldstein, who was in the audience and made some really insightful comments (others were great too), because he can so eloquently cut through those ideology covered mumbo jumbo to defend hegemony.

On the other hand, what the discussion pointed out is something very troubling. The US military/interstrial/intellegence/thinktank sphere has large vested interests in the US hegemony and wars. Normally I wouldn't care because it just lead to its own demise. But now they are squarely pointing at China. One can't help but worry what future is ahead of us. Just look at this:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The way they talk about nuclear war like breakfast and basically try to leverage the US' geographical advantage for large scale wars to protect whatever US interests is just evil. There is nothing more dangerous than a righteous man and there are just so many of them in the US.
Another article written by the usual empty suit anti-China hawk, but this time appearing to be sobering up to the grim outcome of a contest between two nuclear powered rivals. I hate to say this, but America in order to cure it's severe sickness and addiction to war must lose at her best and experience humiliation in order for her society to fix their war disease.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
What an informative piece of research and such incredibly thoughtful discussions afterwards. I have long admired the tiny fraction of American academics in the geopolitical sphere that have achieved deep understanding of the world while being able to maintain objectivity and a humanist principle. I am particularly fond of Goldstein, who was in the audience and made some really insightful comments (others were great too), because he can so eloquently cut through those ideology covered mumbo jumbo to defend hegemony.

On the other hand, what the discussion pointed out is something very troubling. The US military/interstrial/intellegence/thinktank sphere has large vested interests in the US hegemony and wars. Normally I wouldn't care because it just lead to its own demise. But now they are squarely pointing at China. One can't help but worry what future is ahead of us. Just look at this:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The way they talk about nuclear war like breakfast and basically try to leverage the US' geographical advantage for large scale wars to protect whatever US interests is just evil. There is nothing more dangerous than a righteous man and there are just so many of them in the US.

the geographic advantage is a myth of the past. China just need to build more SSN and SSBN, then send a dozen to the West Coast, a dozen to the east coast to patrol, that will be the end of the geographic advantage.
 

horse

Captain
Registered Member
@horse bro about Francis Fukuyama idea that the End of History had arrived meaning "Self Implosion or System Collapse"? Like the Roman's before the heavy weight of the empire The Center simply collapse leading us to The Dark Ages. You can see the comparison and it's eerily similar.

What I remember what that was, it was meant to say there will be no more competition.

After the collapse of communism in the USSR, and comrade Deng reforms, Lenin's and Stalin's communism did not really exist anymore.

Hence, the End of History. The west won, or they believed. The rest of the world will naturally set up systems for politics, society, economics, all based on Western models.

It was all part of Western triumphalism at the time, the unipolar moment for the United States.

Then 9/11 happened, and things changed.
 

horse

Captain
Registered Member
That is why some Westerners are afraid of TikTok.

TikTok is the world's most downloaded app.

It has a growth trajectory that is far more promising than something like Facebook had.

It is immensely popular with the younger generations.

It is cool.

Then the kids buy 100 bikinis for a cheap price from that Shein company, and upload their new clothes and videos to TikTok, and become influencers.

And all this cool stuff, all from the mind of a geeky Chinese guy, who does not want publicity, probably does not even want to go out and be seen.

The west assume that they were the only ones who can create an app like TikTok, and consumer ecosystem with something like Shein. No, they were not even close when it came to this TikTok and influencer scene.

This competition is real, and in all domains.

The end of the End of History caught the west unguarded. Now they still confused on what to do about it.

Will they ban TikTok?

Maybe. They still have not decided. LOL.

:p
 

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