CV-XX (003 carrier) Thread I ... News & Discussions


nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
Replace Chinese shipyard with Boeing and what's the difference? Chinese shipyards have more reliable products.
According to the article, Chinese shipyards use the same facilities to build military and commercial vessels for foreign clients. Does Boeing share the same facilities for manufacturing civilian aircraft and military aircraft? If not, then there's the difference.
 

nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
You are comparing apple with orange. How could a production line of 737 be shared with F-18 technically even if Boeing wanted to? All the tooling and workstations are vastly different. While in shipbuilding, it is just cranes and dry docks.
I'm not an expert, I just paraphrased what the article wrote:
As shipbuilding has grown more specialized, shipyards in Europe and the United States have largely focused on either military or commercial production. Shipyards elsewhere that do produce both military and commercial vessels often separate their facilities. Take, for example, South Korea’s Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI), which builds merchant and naval vessels at its Ulsan Shipyard. HHI is readily transparent about which facilities at Ulsan are
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for naval development.
One thing that comes to mind is that military shipyards might use different types of steel for military vessels, and that those might require special welding equipment and techniques. I don't know if that necessitates a separate facility or not. The other thing is that by separating the facilities it may be easier to enforce a higher level of security, if that's a requirement.
 

nlalyst

Junior Member
Registered Member
You are comparing apple with orange. How could a production line of 737 be shared with F-18 technically even if Boeing wanted to? All the tooling and workstations are vastly different. While in shipbuilding, it is just cranes and dry docks.
I wasn't the one making the comparison to Boeing.

The CSIS article pointed out that the same facilities within Chinese shipyards are used for the construction of military vessels and commercial vessels, while that is not the case in Europe or the US.That makes for an easy argument to claim that foreign parties doing business with those shipyards are directly supporting China's naval construction program. That's about it.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
I wasn't the one making the comparison to Boeing.

The CSIS article pointed out that the same facilities within Chinese shipyards are used for the construction of military vessels and commercial vessels, while that is not the case in Europe or the US.That makes for an easy argument to claim that foreign parties doing business with those shipyards are directly supporting China's naval construction program. That's about it.
Boeing use the same engineers for civilian and military aircraft. In fact civilian aircrafts are converted to military tankers! The article is being nitpicky, just because American shipyards are small and uncompetitive with the large Asian ones since they only got military orders, they will complain about it, what else is new?
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
You are comparing apple with orange. How could a production line of 737 be shared with F-18 technically even if Boeing wanted to? All the tooling and workstations are vastly different. While in shipbuilding, it is just cranes and dry docks.
Next they will ban shipping containers, the same containers for moving bananas can move guns! O no the horror.

All civilian production can switch to military in war, that's how we won WW2.
 

Atomicfrog

Junior Member
Registered Member
You are comparing apple with orange. How could a production line of 737 be shared with F-18 technically even if Boeing wanted to? All the tooling and workstations are vastly different. While in shipbuilding, it is just cranes and dry docks.
Production line of 737 and 767 is shared with the military but we are clearly steaming offcourse of the thread...
 

taxiya

Colonel
Registered Member
As shipbuilding has grown more specialized, shipyards in Europe and the United States have largely focused on either military or commercial production. Shipyards elsewhere that do produce both military and commercial vessels often separate their facilities. Take, for example, South Korea’s Hyundai Heavy Industries (HHI), which builds merchant and naval vessels at its Ulsan Shipyard. HHI is readily transparent about which facilities at Ulsan are
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for naval development.
To begin with, neither Europe nor US have any meaningful civilian shipbuilding business. So their separation is merely because they don't have many civilian ship to build.

HHI is doing the same thing as China. The only difference is that so called "transparency" which is merely about "China should report to the west about everything". Who does the author think he is?

For these two reasons. I only see political propaganda in the article, nothing professional regarding technology capability or economical necessity.
One thing that comes to mind is that military shipyards might use different types of steel for military vessels, and that those might require special welding equipment and techniques. I don't know if that necessitates a separate facility or not. The other thing is that by separating the facilities it may be easier to enforce a higher level of security, if that's a requirement.
Chinese shipbuilders have all the tooling and technicians in the same shipyard. There is no technical or economical necessity to separate military from commercial except for secret purpose.

So I would have returned a question to the author. "Why is the west NOT transparent about their shipyard's purpose?"
 

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