CV-18 Fujian/003 CATOBAR carrier thread

[kriss]

PLA watching IMO is 75% based on rumours, and 25% based on imagery.

That's the exact reason "to not even acknowledge it as something that is worthy of debate or mention" is not the appropriate way to go.

In the case of 003, let's put it this way, I think there's about basically as confirmed that 003 will be conventionally powered as the upcoming 5th gen naval fighter will be based on FC-31.

To be frankly though I agree with that estimate but we have nothing to treat it as "basically as confirmed" for 003.

All the "rumors" are either from semi-credible big shrimp (from which most enthusiastic conventional supporter are at best minnie chan level at worst way below that) or the educated expectation (from both china and west) based on history patterns from both other PLA project and foreign carrier program which honestly is treading the line of empiricism.

There is nothing that can justify indiscriminately dismiss counter argument which we shouldn't. At least not from you and other more knowledgeable members.

 

[Intrepid]

We haven't seen any kind of reactor, but we have seen eight boilers in the two machinery spaces. Isn't that proof enough?

 

[kriss]

We haven't seen any kind of reactor, but we have seen eight boilers in the two machinery spaces. Isn't that proof enough?

Ain't people still trying to find boilers in blur image on this very page? Also since when does boiler becoming a telling difference between two power system?

 

[Intrepid]

Ain't people still trying to find boilers in blur image on this very page? Also since when does boiler becoming a telling difference between two power system?

Suggestion: we'll talk about it again when the ship sets sail for the first time.

 

[Mirabo]

Also since when does boiler becoming a telling difference between two power system?

Because only conventional steam propulsion requires boilers. Water is heated in the boilers and the steam is used to power turbines which in turn drive the propulsion, either directly through a mechanical transmission or indirectly through electric motors.

Nuclear propulsion does not use boilers, because water is heated in the reactor and the resulting steam channeled directly to the turbines. The steam condensates and is then channeled back into the reactor. The reactors substitute the boilers completely.

There is some reasonable logic behind the idea of conventional propulsion for 003. It fits with past development cycles for PLAN ship classes. Conventional steam propulsion is a tried and proven technology. It's much more affordable than nuclear, and a conventional CV can fulfil China's regional defense needs for the foreseeable future.

There is no reasonable logic behind nuclear propulsion. We have not seen nor heard anything about a large marine nuclear reactor design. Nuclear handling facilities do not currently exist at the shipyard. Going from 60,000-ton STOBAR to 85,000-ton CATOBAR with EMALS in one jump is ambitious and risky. China does not need a CVN for regional defense.

We talk a lot about a nuclear 003 now, but if it does turn out to be nuclear, it would mean that China finalized a CVN design as early as 2017. In that year, Shandong had not even finished construction. Imagine starting work on a 85,000-ton CVN before your first indigenous carrier was even completed. What part of this makes any sense?

Taking 002's design and propulsion, making it slightly larger, and replacing the ramp with catapults is a sensible evolutionary choice. Ripping out the propulsion and replacing it with something completely brand new, expensive, and unproven is not.

We will know for sure when we see the island.

 

[kriss]

Suggestion: we'll talk about it again when the ship sets sail for the first time.

Seems you think I'm supporting nuclear theory. We are not in a bet or something.

Suggestion: read before reply.

 

[kriss]

Nuclear propulsion does not use boilers, because water is heated in the reactor and the resulting steam channeled directly to the turbines. The steam condensates and is then channeled back into the reactor. The reactors substitute the boilers completely.

Pressurized water reactor used on navy vessels has a steam generator which is essentially a boiler. Though you could say it's part of reactor.

Because only conventional steam propulsion requires boilers. Water is heated in the boilers and the steam is used to power turbines which in turn drive the propulsion, either directly through a mechanical transmission or indirectly through electric motors.

Nuclear propulsion does not use boilers, because water is heated in the reactor and the resulting steam channeled directly to the turbines. The steam condensates and is then channeled back into the reactor. The reactors substitute the boilers completely.

There is some reasonable logic behind the idea of conventional propulsion for 003. It fits with past development cycles for PLAN ship classes. Conventional steam propulsion is a tried and proven technology. It's much more affordable than nuclear, and a conventional CV can fulfil China's regional defense needs for the foreseeable future.

There is no reasonable logic behind nuclear propulsion. We have not seen nor heard anything about a large marine nuclear reactor design. Nuclear handling facilities do not currently exist at the shipyard. Going from 60,000-ton STOBAR to 85,000-ton CATOBAR with EMALS in one jump is ambitious and risky. China does not need a CVN for regional defense.

We talk a lot about a nuclear 003 now, but if it does turn out to be nuclear, it would mean that China finalized a CVN design as early as 2017. In that year, Shandong had not even finished construction. Imagine starting work on a 85,000-ton CVN before your first indigenous carrier was even completed. What part of this makes any sense?

Taking 002's design and propulsion, making it slightly larger, and replacing the ramp with catapults is a sensible evolutionary choice. Ripping out the propulsion and replacing it with something completely brand new, expensive, and unproven is not.

We will know for sure when we see the island.

Quite a nice argument but there is no need to convince me as I'm also mostly confidence that 003 would be conventional.

My point is we should not use these though very strong point but still not fact presenting evidence as a justification to dismiss those who believe there is still possibility for nuclear even when they present an reasonable counter-point.

 

[Blitzo]

Pressurized water reactor used on navy vessels has a steam generator which is essentially a boiler. Though you could say it's part of reactor.

Quite a nice argument but there is no need to convince me as I'm also mostly confidence that 003 would be conventional.

My point is we should not use these though very strong point but still not fact presenting evidence as a justification to dismiss those who believe there is still possibility for nuclear even when they present an reasonable counter-point.

That's the thing, I don't think the counter point is reasonable at all.

We have absolutely no reason to entertain those counter points as if they currently deserve consideration of being valid, the many reasons of which Higgle has kindly laid out in his previous post.


Just because the possibility of something is technically not zero doesn't mean the possibility of it should be considered seriously.

And for us, I think we can do much better than and the thread would be much more productive for the next year or so (the length of time it'll take for us to see the islands funnel) if we just all agree that the idea of 003 being nuclear is silly and is best answered with a "no, stop."

 

[Intrepid]

I can't see anything interesting, need one of you folks with crazy eyesight that can point at a bright pixel and go "see that's a boiler".

The boilers can be seen or only seen when they were shone brightly by the sun. In your aerial photo, the resolution is not enough and the boilers are hidden in the shade.

 

[li450274625]

Just because the possibility of something is technically not zero doesn't mean the possibility of it should be considered seriously.

I think the possibility of collapse of Chinese economy is technically not zero but it is considered seriously all over the western media. The "possibility" you mentioned is a very subjective thing. Different people have different opinions. And it is not worthy for a person like you who has some reputation in the community to upvote a comment in which people call people with other opinions "retard". Anyway, you are the moderator here, you can even remove the comments that speculate 003 is nuclear powered. But the more you do, the more you will be embarrassed if by chance it is actually nuclear powered. It is not worthwhile.