CV-16, CV-17 STOBAR carrier thread (001/Liaoning, 002/Shandong)

Helius

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
Confusionism said:
But the black smoke only appears when you start to accelerate, not when you have reached high speed, right?
And in the photo we see that the plane has left the deck, which means the ship is no longer at low speed.
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Confusionism said:
That's exactly the problem, you can't start accelerating when the plane is already on takeoff, but it should be some time before the takeoff operation.
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Confusionism said:
But we're not talking about whether the aircraft can take off or not.
But precisely because the carrier acceleration process is slow, acceleration should have started before takeoff operations, not waiting until mid-takeoff to start adding fuel to the new boilers.
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Confusionism said:
So I said "hard to say"
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Confusionism said:
I'm confused now, what exactly are you trying to say? I just posted a picture of the Liaoning at full speed with no black smoke.
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Confusionism said:
No, I'm not, I'm just saying that the cause of the black smoke cannot be reasoned so simply.
Also, even if I imply that there is something wrong with the Liaoning somewhere, you can't dismiss it with a bunch of pictures of it without black smoke, just like when your car breaks down on the road, you can't use a video of your car driving normally before to convince yourself that there is nothing wrong with it.
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Confusionism said:
Calling someone's opinion a willy-nilly rebutting doesn't add to the validity of your opinion.

You can design a very reasonable scenario for your theory, but it's just a theory you have, and it doesn't negate the possibility of other theories with one possible explanation.
All we have in our hands is a photo, neither the actual speed of the ship at that time nor the actual data of the engine work, all we can do is all kinds of speculations. I'm not saying your theory is wrong, I'm just saying "hard to say" because there are always other, more complex possibilities.
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Confusionism said:
First of all, I did not say that any of my theories are more likely than others, I just said "hard to say" and that is to be dismissed.
Although I am not an engine engineer on an aircraft carrier, I do believe that there can't be only two scenarios of "black smoke" in the Liaoning's operations manual.
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Confusionism said:
No, I didn't derail any thread, I just said "hard to say". And your arbitrary and rude way of rejecting any opinion that disagrees with you, for reasons I don't understand, is what is most likely to derail a thread.
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Talk about arbitrarily rejecting any opinion that people actually took an effort in humouring you in spite of you not having a single constructive counter and rudely flooding this thread like someone who only cares about having the last word.

Again, not the place for this kind of exercise. Stop it already.
 
Helius

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
Confusionism said:
I'm still confused as to what you can do to improve your own arbitrary and rude attitude by taking all my statements out of context and merging them together?
And what I don't understand is that I know this forum has very strict rules, and I like most of them, but are you the administrator of this forum? Why would you feel qualified to decide what people say and what they can't say?
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Not liking someone's explanation, or the fact they dare reply to you, yet you offer nothing credible to advance the discussion other than persistently repeating your "hard to say"... which would've be a fine statement but you keep repeating it is not, is incredibly rude in and of itself.

When people call you out on it, you not only call them 'arbitrary' and 'rude' but keep derailing this thread with this ceaseless bickering, is incredibly rude in and of itself.

For the last time, this is a CV thread, not a place for you to go on a tirade to one up other members in off topic childish arguments to make yourself feel better/vindicated/whatever.

I'm sure you know exactly what you're doing, so this will be the last I will say on this silliness, and for my part I apologise to y'all who have to endure this.

Any more from you goes straight to the report pile.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Confusionism said:
First of all, I did not say that any of my theories are more likely than others, I just said "hard to say" and that is to be dismissed.
Although I am not an engine engineer on an aircraft carrier, I do believe that there can't be only two scenarios of "black smoke" in the Liaoning's operations manual.
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That's a fair enough explanation.
 
V

Volpler11

Junior Member
Registered Member
Confusionism said:
It's hard to say that, you don't see black smoke in the other takeoff photos.
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You have my reasoning backwards. Hendrik_2000 offered 2 reasons for the black smoke, the reason no 1 boiler just started warming up, and the reason no 2 more fuel added to increase output. Since the carrier was launching J-15 at the time, it indicates the ship is already at speed, meaning the boilers are already fired up. Therefore by the process of elimination, reason 2 appears to be more likely.

The lack of black smoke in the other takeoff photos does not disprove anything. It could just be the other times the ship did not need to increase boiler output. The presence of black smoke in the photo indicates something additional is going on compared to the other launch photos.
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Confusionism said:
No, I'm not, I'm just saying that the cause of the black smoke cannot be reasoned so simply.
Also, even if I imply that there is something wrong with the Liaoning somewhere, you can't dismiss it with a bunch of pictures of it without black smoke, just like when your car breaks down on the road, you can't use a video of your car driving normally before to convince yourself that there is nothing wrong with it.
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I see now that you have no background in engineering whatsoever. There is such thing as transient operating condition(wind gust, need to maintain speed etc) and steady state operating condition(cruising cond). The Liaoning picture with smoke is when she is in transient condition meaning she is revving up her engine that is why the smoke as Helius explained in the above post! Read it first before you make comment

The Lioaning picture in open sea is when she is in steady state condition or cruising condition No extra power demand that is why there is no smoke CAPICCI !

Another thing is the type of Fuel for naval ship is Usually Bunker C the lowest grade of fuel
 
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