Chinese semiconductor industry


ansy1968

Major
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Because China has a large population. Hence a high economic potential / higher total market size where different chipmakers can each support hundreds of millions of consumers each while in the domestic market.
@gadgetcool5 bro not trying to be a smart aleck, if we follow your thesis then India should be an IC powerhouse. My humble opinion gov't policy is the answer, you may leverage your national asset but if the foundation is not there it will bound to fail. China had experience multiple failure, with each failure a lesson had been learned , improved upon then try it again that is the thing with China, they're not afraid to experiment. And of course there is the adversarial attitude of the US which motivate the Chinese therefore hasten its development.
 

gadgetcool5

Junior Member
Registered Member
@gadgetcool5 bro not trying to be a smart aleck, if we follow your thesis then India should be an IC powerhouse. My humble opinion gov't policy is the answer, you may leverage your national asset but if the foundation is not there it will bound for failure. China had experience multiple failure, with each failure a lesson had been learned , improved upon then try it again that is the thing with China, they're not afraid to experiment. And of course there is the adversarial attitude of the US which motivate the Chinese therefore hasten its development.
Well a lot of people here do obsess about India and it's potential. The Indian economics thread gets a lot more attention than the Southeast Asian, Japanese, Pakistani, Russian, or African country economics threads/topics. That being said, large population is a prerequisite but not enough. It is not sufficient but it is necessary.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Junior Member
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Well a lot of people here do obsess about India and it's potential. The Indian economics thread gets a lot more attention than the Southeast Asian, Japanese, Pakistani, Russian, or African country economics threads/topics. That being said, large population is a prerequisite but not enough. It is not sufficient but it is necessary.
mostly because the Indian economy has so many spectacular failures yet so much boasting. Trust me on this - if Japanese bragged about how they were going to resurrect Imperial Japan and then crashed a coast guard ship into Diaoyu Islands and had to be rescued by the PLAN, the Japanese economy thread would be hot too.
 

ansy1968

Major
Registered Member
I forgot to add: Many countries have tried and failed with the strategy of import duties and subsidies for locals. China can do this successfully because it has advantages: an abundance of engineers, and an economy large enough to support many competing local chipmakers.
@Nutrient bro it will bound to succeed cause if we based it in economic theory, scarcity produced opportunity. Its the greatest motivator! profits are there to be taken no amount of monopolistic power the US hold will impede the Chinese. We are more capitalistic than them, we are more numerous and had better business acumen, that combination is why the West , the US in particular is so afraid of us.
 

ansy1968

Major
Registered Member
mostly because the Indian economy has so many spectacular failures yet so much boasting. Trust me on this - if Japanese bragged about how they were going to resurrect Imperial Japan and then crashed a coast guard ship into Diaoyu Islands and had to be rescued by the PLAN, the Japanese economy thread would be hot too.
@FairAndUnbiased bro from those failures they don't learn anything what a way to waste an opportunity, Ego is a powerful force that is detrimental in one person or nation development. We Chinese had been discriminate a lot instead of being angry we work hard to improve ourselves to prove them wrong, while the Indians instead of accepting the fact (with the Galwan picture as an example) had the time and creativeness to counter with a false narrative and they question why the Chinese where more advance than them...LOL
 

FairAndUnbiased

Junior Member
Registered Member
@Nutrient bro it will bound to succeed cause if we based it in economic theory, scarcity produced opportunity. Its the greatest motivator! profits are there to be taken no amount of monopolistic power the US hold will impede the Chinese. We are more capitalistic than them, we are more numerous and had better business acumen, that combination is why the West , the US in particular is so afraid of us.
I disagree with one thing.

Chinese indeed have better at business acumen (better at managing the operational aspects of a business such as minimizing waste and maximizing profit).

But Chinese are far worse at capitalism than westerners.

How much hard work does a Chinese businessman have to do to increase sales at a furniture store, or a restaurant? But a real western capitalist will basically claim to have game changing technology that's so simple to use for anything from healthcare to IT to energy. When asked about details, they'll confidently smile at you and say that this is an inappropriate forum for in depth technical discussion. Bonus points for
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I'd say that the Chinese businessman is no match for the western capitalist. How many customers you gotta serve, before you make as much money as 1 Theranos?
 

Vichysoy

New Member
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I disagree with one thing.

Chinese indeed have better at business acumen (better at managing the operational aspects of a business such as minimizing waste and maximizing profit).

But Chinese are far worse at capitalism than westerners.

How much hard work does a Chinese businessman have to do to increase sales at a furniture store, or a restaurant? But a real western capitalist will basically claim to have game changing technology that's so simple to use for anything from healthcare to IT to energy. When asked about details, they'll confidently smile at you and say that this is an inappropriate forum for in depth technical discussion. Bonus points for
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I'd say that the Chinese businessman is no match for the western capitalist. How many customers you gotta serve, before you make as much money as 1 Theranos?
I agree with you ! Chinese bussinessman work too many sections in their bussiness , meanwhile western capitalist will changing technology for manufacturing .
But now how can chinese bussinessman change their mind ?
 

Annihilation98

Junior Member
Registered Member
When China DUV 28nm will be introduced? Why so late lol. No news about it since this equipment is the most important to achieve self-sufficiency.
 

gadgetcool5

Junior Member
Registered Member
When China DUV 28nm will be introduced? Why so late lol. No news about it since this equipment is the most important to achieve self-sufficiency.
Huawei was supposed to build a 45nm fab by the end of 2020. There was a slew of articles about it and then... nothing. I am skeptical about all articles that promise technological progress "by the end of the year", because why should r&d occur according to calendar year schedules? It smacks of PR and artificially imposed deadlines. That being said, would love to be surprised.

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Meanwhile, Samsung which has access to ASML machines is moving ahead:

Samsung announces new 17nm process node designed for those still stuck on 28nm​

We are now closer than ever to achieving 3nm chips in smartphones, but it is easy to forget that a vast majority of the electronics industry still relies on legacy processes owing to their low costs. Because of this, a lot of electronics continue using the planar 28nm process – a fabrication process that was last seen at the beginning of the last decade. And it is this industry that Samsung is aiming at with its newly announced 17nm process node.

Samsung Foundry Forum 2021 was held yesterday where it was announced that Samsung will be launching the 3nm GAA process in the first half of 2022 along with the commercial production of 2nm GAA process chips in 2025. Along with this, the company also announced the launch of a new 17LPV process – the 17nm Low Power Value process (via:
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It is basically an advanced version of the 28nm process with the difference being that it combines the 28nm BEOL (Back-End-Of-Line) and the 14nm FEOL (Back-End-Of-Line) process. This can bring significant cost reduction for customers while also improving energy efficiency by leaps and bounds.

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ansy1968

Major
Registered Member
When China DUV 28nm will be introduced? Why so late lol. No news about it since this equipment is the most important to achieve self-sufficiency.
@Annihilation98 bro I know this is your way to stimulate a conversation and I applauded you for that, but you had been here for a year and had join with the discussion, please reread some of your post and the rebuttals, cause constant repetition , it gets tiring but for you I'll dig an article from last year for your perusal. The source is GLOBAL TIMES that is an official confirmation one can get.

Chinese firm to deliver 28nm chip manufacturing machine in 2021-2022: reports​

Source:Global Times Published: 2020/6/7 17:13:40
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File photo: A visitor watches a Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (Group) Co display of how a lithography machine works on November 8, 2013.
Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (Group) Co (SMEE) will deliver the first domestic 28nm lithography machine between 2021 to 2022, helping narrowing the gap with the world's chip-making technology, industry websites said.

The move is a leapfrog breakthrough for China's semiconductor industry, according to domestic technology website mydrivers.com. Industry website icsmart.cn also reported it is good news for China's semiconductor industry chain.

The US crackdowns on ZTE and Huawei awakened Chinese companies to explore self-developed lithography equipment, which has underscored the urgency and significance of China to develop advanced chip making ability in a bid to avoid being squeezed by the US amid an escalating tech war.

Xiang Ligang, a veteran industry analyst, told the Global Times on Sunday that once SMEE has the ability to deliver 28nm lithography equipment, it will have the opportunity to move forward to 14nm and 7nm lithography equipment, noting that the breakthrough helps the company "accumulate experience" to manufacture high-end chip-making equipment.

The whole world could take part in the chip-making industry instead of a particular country or particular company, so progress by any single company is valuable, Xiang noted.

Founded in 2002, SMEE is one of the advanced lithography machine makers in China and accounts for about 80 percent of the domestic market share, industry websites said.

Lithography machines are one of the core pieces of equipment in chip manufacturing. Netherlands-based chip equipment maker Advanced Semiconductor Material Lithography (ASML) remained a global leader in churning out high-end lithography machines, followed by Nikon and Cano.

Liu Kun, a Beijing-based semiconductor industry analyst noted that even if the core component of the 28nm lithography equipment may not be made in China, it would be a breakthrough for the Chinese company to package such equipment.

It may take three to five years for companies like Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC) to make the 28nm equipment by itself and there is still a long way to go, but Chinese companies are ramping up efforts, according to Liu.

Global Times
 

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