Chinese helicopter fleet

Is there anyone who is trying to upkeep an ORBAT of various units with helicopters?
Here I primarily mean the Army's stuff, but also Navy's and to a lesser extent Air force's units would be welcome.

Trying to do it myself is not really giving me much to celebrate.

Scramble.nl does have some ORBAT but I can neither tell how accurate they are nor how many of each type of helicopters there are in a brigade they list.
(counting the number of types and brigades Scramble.nl mentions i get 4 units of Z20, 21 units each of Z9 and Mi17, 14 units of Z19, 15 units of Z10 and 19 units of Z8)

Knowing a brigade has a certain helicopter type doesn't mean much. When a single brigade was known, in the past to have just smaller detachement of certain types (like just 6 Z9s) or double units for some types - at least two times 12 of a certain type. And also, it appears some units have even more than 12 airframes in a single subunit. Is there even a standardized count? 16 perhaps?

CDF forum also has great work by kcandrew, trying to report all known serial numbers in all brigades, but even that method does not give a clear picture.
For example, I counted 13 brigades mentioning Z9WZ use, 15 mentioning Z10 use, up to 9 mentioning Z19, 10 mentioning Z8, 4 mentioning Z20 and 15 mentioning Mi-17 use. But without actually knowing how many helos per each brigade might be out there - those figures, even if true and complete (which they may not be) are not enough for a clear picture.

Counting just the known serials only gives a very partial view of the situation. Basically, bottom possible numbers.
So far, kcandrew compiled a list of at least 71 known Z9WZ serials, 125 known Z10 serials, 89 known Z19 serials, 91 known Z8 serials, 15 known Z20 serials and 175 known Mi17 serials.

all the figures above are for PLA only, and pertain to situation of 2019 and later.

Would be nice to know how PLA rotary wing organization/doctrine/strategy would work now that the Type 075s are coming online, I'm particularly intrigued by what the composition of it's air wing might look like.

crash8pilot said:

Would be nice to know how PLA rotary wing organization/doctrine/strategy would work now that the Type 075s are coming online, I'm particularly intrigued by what the composition of it's air wing might look like.

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Me too but I think all helicopters assigned to the 075 LHDs will be more likely - at least at a later day - assigned to the PLAN MC Aviation Brigades and not from the Army Aviation. For a certain interim time surely AA too, but later the PLAN MC will have their own ones.

As for the Army Aviation, the standard composition of an AA Brigade, the helicopters and so on I recommend this one, even if probably including a much larger margin of error / uncertainty than in the PLAAF book.

A rough calculation of the rotary wing ASW requirements of the Navy’s surface combatants is 69 airframes, not counting the aircraft carriers, Type 055s and extended Type 052Ds which can accommodate the Z-20/Z-8/Z-18. This requirement will have to be met with Z-9/Ka-28s. This is a significant number of sub-optimal airframes. We should expect the Navy to address this by replacing ships that can only accommodate Z-9/Ka-28s as soon as possible.

SAC said:

A rough calculation of the rotary wing ASW requirements of the Navy’s surface combatants is 69 airframes, not counting the aircraft carriers, Type 055s and extended Type 052Ds which can accommodate the Z-20/Z-8/Z-18. This requirement will have to be met with Z-9/Ka-28s. This is a significant number of sub-optimal airframes. We should expect the Navy to address this by replacing ships that can only accommodate Z-9/Ka-28s as soon as possible.

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May I ask, how you come to "69 airframes"?

The Navy’s fleet capable surface combatant ships that can hangar ASW helicopters (not including aircraft carriers, 055 and 052D extended that can operate Z-8/18/20), includes: 052D, 052C, 052B, Sovremmeny, 051B, 052, 054A, 054, 053H3. These ships require approximately 69 airframes, that can only be satisfied by Z-9/Ka-28. I will include a table.

SAC said:

The Navy’s fleet capable surface combatant ships that can hangar ASW helicopters (not including aircraft carriers, 055 and 052D extended that can operate Z-8/18/20), includes: 052D, 052C, 052B, Sovremmeny, 051B, 052, 054A, 054, 053H3. These ships require approximately 69 airframes, that can only be satisfied by Z-9/Ka-28. I will include a table.

Click to expand...

But you cannot count the number of helicopters by the number of available hangars! That's ridiculous.

Oh dear! This is difficult. As i have tried to explain previously here, required airframes should include operational, training, and attrition reserve numbers. What I was alluding to was a minimum given current discussion on numbers of airframes, especially when we look at the (believed) current inventory of Navy ASW helicopters. This was to highlight the challenges the Navy faces with its rotary-wing ASW assets. It is not simply about how many can be hangared.

So to explain this further (beyond necessary), the Navy needs more than 69 non-Z-8/18/20 to address its deployed rotary-wing ASW requirements. I don't see the Navy having these in service or ordered. Unless someone can suggest otherwise.

From a previous post:

The following is a hypothetical airwing for a Type 075, based on a capacity of 30 aircraft:

6 x reconnaissance rotary-wing UAVs

6 x attack helicopters

12 x Z-20 helicopters

6 x Z-18 helicopters

Working on an operational serviceability rate of around 65% would allow the following for the first waves:

4 x reconnaissance rotary-wing UAVs

4 x attack helicopters

8 x Z-20 helicopters

4 x Z-18 helicopters

Mission planning:

The reconnaissance rotary-wing UAVs and attack helicopters are airborne, preparing for the air assault.

4 x Z-20 and 2 x Z-18 helicopters are on the 6 x aircraft spots ready for launch.

4 x Z-20 and 2 x Z-18 helicopters are on the flight deck prepared to move to the aircraft spots.

Execution:

The reconnaissance rotary-wing UAVs have identified the remaining key defensive positions and the attack helicopters have delivered precise fire support.

The 8 x Z-20 helicopters deliver an Infantry Company minus (COY-), while the 4 x Z-18 helicopters deliver some of the Battalions heavy weapons.