Chinese Economics Thread


vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Almost all of the "perplexing" Long term covid symptoms are due to prolonged inflammatory response. Allopathic medicine is horrible in this area because it doesn't show up on traditional blood works, and it is hard to treat without using strong steroids. So patients in the West are left without solutions.

But Natural medicine, Traditional Chinese Medicine is particularly good in this area, and is widely available in China. Infected patient using TCM can recover quicker, and often not have long term covid syndromes.
You have published studies that provide proofs for your theory?
 

Petrolicious88

Junior Member
Registered Member
You have published studies that provide proofs for your theory?
Strong efficacy of Traditional Chinese Medicine against Covid is supported by Chinese Academy of Medical Science and major TCM hospitals in China.

Prolonged inflammation as the main driver of Long Term covid is supported by several major studies that have recently been published. Check PubMed.
 
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vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Strong efficacy of Traditional Chinese Medicine against Covid is supported by Chinese Academy of Medical Science and major TCM hospitals in China.

Prolonged inflammation as the main driver of Long Term covid is supported by several major studies that have recently been published. Check PubMed.
where are the studies that show traditional Chinese medicines prevent/reduce long-COVID?
 

Petrolicious88

Junior Member
Registered Member
where are the studies that show traditional Chinese medicines prevent/reduce long-COVID?
Here is one study among many. And I'm sure Chinese language TCM medical journals have tons of research on managing long term covid.

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. (Acupuncture which is part of TCM, on Long term Covid)

See section on how TCM manages inflammatory responses. For example, Lianhua Qingwen (classic TCM formula) was analyzed to repair lung injury by modulating inflammatory process. And we know lingering inflammation in the lung tissues after the initial infection is over, causes long term shortness of breath, fatigue, etc.. classic symptoms of Long Covid.

Lastly, TCM treats based on patterns not disease names (Long Term Covid due to prolonged inflammation is a name, not a pattern). And this low grade inflammation can be classified in TCM as: excess heat, deficiency heat, blood stasis, Qi stagnation, etc... etc... There is a rich history in Chinese medicine on treating all of these patterns - all backed by decades of clinical data from Chinese teaching hospitals and academies.
 
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InfamousMeow

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is the problem with this forum. Any moderate criticism of CCP immediatedly gets tagged as "hate" by overzealous supporters.

Still, there has been incremental progress. Criticising the Zero Covid idiocy a few months ago garnered zero positive responses. Today, more and more people are slowly accepting that it's a bad strategy but are divided on when to end it. There is still a big faction of people who are hardline supporters of the CCP no matter what they do, and that dumbs the conversation down. Like, you don't have to accept all the Western media BS to admit that the CCP isn't flawless and they make mistakes. Like, seriously, it won't hurt you. I promise.


The vast majority of Covid deaths in all countries are concentrated in the 70+ age bracket. How many promising scientists are there to be found? I'd argue that even leaders above the age of 70 shouldn't be in the business anymore.

Covid isn't going away. It's going to be with us for years to come. So there are only two choices: either China accepts having permanently lower economic growth by ~2 percentage points per year (which adds up to a lot over a ten year time horizon) or it will have to accept a fraction of its elderly dying earlier than expected. So far it has chosen to prioritise the boomers over the economy.

I don't know man, you are framing your own criticism of CCP as "moderate criticism" while framing people who disagree with you as "overzealous supporters". You also frame your perceived shift in opinion as "incremental progress" and labeled "a big faction of people" as "hardline supporters of the CCP no matter what they do", and are "dumbing the conversation down". You also implies that people think they might hurt themselves by admitting "CCP isn't flawless and they make mistakes". Quite a way of strawmaning other people's positions and dumbing the conversation down isn't it? Have some self-awareness please! Putting yourself on a pedastal doesn't mean you are better in reality. You still fail to convince a significant portion of people of your position with the information you presented. I think you should try better at convincing people rather than putting labels on people who disagree with you.

You still fail to address the argument of the specific "overzealous/hardcore supporter of CCP"(KYli) that you replied to. The countries that have already lifted all lockdown or didn't have any serious lockdown in the first place are not doing any better than China in just simple economic term, not mentioning the massive loss of human life.

You also showed your childish understanding of Zero-Covid policy by presenting the false dichotomy of 1."China accepts permanent lower economic growth" or 2. "a fraction of its elderly dying earlier" without any nuance. Since the implementation of Zero-Covid policy, no one in Chinese government ever claims that Zero-Covid policy will be permanent. They only said that the Zero-Covid policy was there to protect the health and lives of the people. And, in the early stage of Covid, the officials in Chinese CDC actually came out, quite publicly on Chinese state-owned media, and specifically laid out the condition under which the Zero-Covid policy will be lifted. One of the condition is, to put it in the phrase that you are so inclined to use without any nuance, a lesser/more acceptable fraction of its elderly dying earlier.
 

tankphobia

Junior Member
Registered Member
In inner areas of China zero covid has prevented most of the population into coming contact with the virus, it has done wonders for the people who would've otherwise gotten sick/died from the disease, keeping industry running and people working, which we're seeing reflected in the splendid GDP figures.

On the other hand, well connected tier 1 cities that receives a large amount of people from outside China is suffering the blunt of the lockdowns and are suffering more as a result, you can see recent examples in Shanghai where people are rushing out of malls to avoid getting locked in with a single red health code, meanwhile in the rest of China it's basically business as usual which is a great place compared to the rest of the world.

Honestly I don't see a good way to prevent small outbreaks caused by international travel, it is infeasible to block foreigners and Chinese citizens from arriving and even frozen food could be a viral vector outside of the people, the best China can really do is to hold on to its diminished growth while staying the course on its current policy, given that tier 1 cities discontent are properly managed.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Honestly I don't see a good way to prevent small outbreaks caused by international travel, it is infeasible to block foreigners and Chinese citizens from arriving and even frozen food could be a viral vector outside of the people, the best China can really do is to hold on to its diminished growth while staying the course on its current policy, given that tier 1 cities discontent are properly managed.
Not tier 1 cities, just Shanghai. No one bitches and moans as much as Shanghainese
 

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