Chinese Economics Thread


horse

Senior Member
Registered Member
You can.

In teh UK it is easy to enforce a contract, the legal process cheap and fast.

OTher countried hasn't got this kind of efficiency, means in a simply business buying I need more gurantee, time and generally it cost more money than in the UK.

Due to that outsied of UK I need to use relatives/ good friends to conduct business.

Dude, do you realize the biggest construction project in the history of the world is the One Belt One Road, it is probably two trillion USD and counting, with a majority of the world's nation participating in it.

The reason that I mention that, is that it is no secret that half of the countries involved in the BRI has unknown legal structures or frameworks.

There is no law there basically. Yet, no one is building infrastructure for the people of the world as fast as this. Being fast means it is efficient.

These projects are better than anyone in the west can do, in terms of cost and quality. That is why the BRI is a roaring success.

These rules based ideas and theories cannot compete.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Senior Member
Registered Member
There's a little game I like to play with the China bashers which is calculating how much China's GDP has grown since they joined. @Anlsvrthng joined in 2017, since then China has grown by 20% while the UK has grown by 1.7%. No, that's not a typo, that 1.7% growth over three years, i.e., less than 0.6% growth per annum. Where do these people find the nerve to even discuss China's economy?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
There's a little game I like to play with the China bashers which is calculating how much China's GDP has grown since they joined. @Anlsvrthng joined in 2017, since then China has grown by 20% while the UK has grown by 1.7%. No, that's not a typo, that 1.7% growth over three years, i.e., less than 0.6% growth per annum. Where do these people find the nerve to even discuss China's economy?
They're the low hanging fruit like the ones that laughed that CAC forgot to have the landing gear be able to retract on the J-20 when it was first unveiled. They knew it wasn't the case but they have to save face because of the failures of their own countries. Just look at now since the Chinese hypersonic glider test was exposed. Like clockwork all the trolls are coming out because they can't stand China was able to accomplish this much. Indians are calling it a failure concentrating on how it was off by 24 miles and the FOX News idiots are charging China stole something that they don't have other than in concepts. And then they're using this to call for ending China as a supplier because China is making money from the US to make these weapons. The US got rich from exploiting cheap labor in China. Now they're not going to be rich trying to source everything in the US while people are choosing to not to work which is contributing to their supply chain problems which they think cutting off China is the solution.
 

Godzilla

New Member
Registered Member
Quote that I answered:
"Anyone who's ever worked corporate will note the cringeworthy "we are family" themes running across all corporate workplaces which runs to the benefit of the oligarch owners since they can expect you to work overtime for your 'work family' and yet not raise your pay. "

Chinese working more hours, for less share of corporate income, at the same time they deprived the trustable investment opportunities, hence the love with the housing market.


The differences bron from the difference in ISNTITUTIONS, and the local/county/country goverment is a small part of it.

If a Chinese worker's hand crushed by a machine what is the biggest compensation that he would get compared to his yearly sallary ,from the company? Same for the UK/USA counterpart ?

This has deep implications.
Countries with weak , slow or incapable/complicated legal background has weaker worker safety, more accident, lower compensation .

Simply saying, the corporate profit from the injuries of workers, by not providing to them safe work enviroment.

This is NOT dictated by the goverment, but by the juridical system.
I doubt you have worked in China since your views are completely out of date.
Full time workers in China has what you call 5xian1jin, or 6 insurances, covering injury, retirement, health, loss of employment, reproduction and housing, both employer and employee contribute to this, and it makes up quite a bit of the package, depending on which province/city you live in.
I'll use fatality at work in China as an example.
If someone died at work due to work reasons, there is these components.
1. 1 off funeral costs, indexed at 6 x average monthly salary of the local area.
2. 1 off death allowance, indexed at 20x annual national average income.
3. Family support, indexed as a % of their salary before death. This include parents (30% from age 55/60 to death or 40% if only 1), partner (40% from 55/60 to death if they do not have their own retirement fund), and kids (30% until 18 or 40% if other parent deceased also).

Lets say you have a 10 year old, a working wife and both your parents are still alive, and live in a city where the average income is 6,000 rmb a month, and the national average income is 40,000 rmb and you earn 10,000 RMB a month, and you died from overworking your 37.5 hour week, then your payout will be:
1. 36,000 for your funeral,
2. 800,000 rmb death compensation
3. 3,000 x 8 x 12 = 288,000 for your son, 3000 x 12 x 25 = 900,000 for your mum assuming she dies in 25 years time, 3000 x 12 x 20 = 720,000 for your dad assuming he dies in 20 years time, that is another 1,908,000, depending on how soon your family dies.
So your total package for dying is 2.744 million RMB or around $400,000 US. This should be coming from your insurance.
This is actually quite similar to the likes of Australia, and pretty high comparatively speaking based on income level, and the widows and dependents can live relatively comfortably on it. (Don't let your wife find out or she will egg you on to die at work hehe)

In all honesty, safety has drastically improved in China over the last 10-15 years in most industries. Chinese lives actually matters now because of higher living standards and the country is richer, and safety stats have came down dramatically. Not just that, the workers still have their common sense about them which helps on top of the increased regulations and better PPE/training. I just ran a 25 million man hour job in China LTI free, under Exxon HSE definitions. Might be worth revisiting China when the borders reopen so you can update your views and reevaluate....
 
Quote that I answered:
"Anyone who's ever worked corporate will note the cringeworthy "we are family" themes running across all corporate workplaces which runs to the benefit of the oligarch owners since they can expect you to work overtime for your 'work family' and yet not raise your pay. "

Chinese working more hours, for less share of corporate income, at the same time they deprived the trustable investment opportunities, hence the love with the housing market.
And what I answered were your incorrect insinuations that 1. Chinese people have less trust towards their employers and their government than people in the West and 2. China's less efficient because workers work harder for less. Both of those are wrong regardless of what you were trying to answer.
The differences bron from the difference in ISNTITUTIONS, and the local/county/country goverment is a small part of it.
If it's born out of law, then the government is the determinant, not the institution.
If a Chinese worker's hand crushed by a machine what is the biggest compensation that he would get compared to his yearly sallary ,from the company? Same for the UK/USA counterpart ?
Don't know; depends on the situation. America has lots of laws and loopholes to exploit. Don't know about the UK, not important enough for me to care. What are you trying to insinuate? I don't see any of this as a support for your "point."
This has deep implications.
Countries with weak , slow or incapable/complicated legal background has weaker worker safety, more accident, lower compensation .

Simply saying, the corporate profit from the injuries of workers, by not providing to them safe work enviroment.
Ok, and what country are you talking about? What country provides the safest working conditions and best compensation for blue collar work in the world? Is it the most successful country? What is your point? It seems like you are just babbling.
This is NOT dictated by the goverment, but by the juridical system.
The judicial system is dictated by the government.
You can.

In teh UK it is easy to enforce a contract, the legal process cheap and fast.

OTher countried hasn't got this kind of efficiency, means in a simply business buying I need more gurantee, time and generally it cost more money than in the UK.

Due to that outsied of UK I need to use relatives/ good friends to conduct business.
Uh huh, and how come the UK declined from the world's top power to a middle power known for just bad weather and bland food? The UK's not even notable compared to other similarly sized middle powers like France, Japan, etc... Were the laws too laxed or too strict?
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
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That's good, but this is more like the way Apple wants to make their EV. They design it and someone makes it, and despite that arrangement, the company that designed it takes all the credit. Maybe they are hoping Foxconn would go into the EV car business. The other contribution that Xiaomi and Apple can do is to supply the software. This arrangement is similar to what Huawei did.


Why I don't think it won't get far.

Xiaomi is more like packaging, design and life style companies than tech companies. If you want a tech company, look at BYD. They design, manufacture, and patent their batteries. They design, manufacture and patent their IGBT circuits. They build the whole car from top to bottom with a complete stack. BYD is like the Samsung of EVs. Being in control of the entire stack means you can integrate everything along the stack like no one can, control the IP, have control of your supply chains, and have control of your production and profit margins.
 

ansy1968

Major
Registered Member
That's good, but this is more like the way Apple wants to make their EV. They design it and someone makes it, and despite that arrangement, the company that designed it takes all the credit. Maybe they are hoping Foxconn would go into the EV car business. The other contribution that Xiaomi and Apple can do is to supply the software. This arrangement is similar to what Huawei did.


Why I don't think it won't get far.

Xiaomi is more like packaging, design and life style companies than tech companies. If you want a tech company, look at BYD. They design, manufacture, and patent their batteries. They design, manufacture and patent their IGBT circuits. They build the whole car from top to bottom with a complete stack. BYD is like the Samsung of EVs. Being in control of the entire stack means you can integrate everything along the stack like no one can, control the IP, have control of your supply chains, and have control of your production and profit margins.
@Tam Sir spot on! XIAOMI not a tech company, they just go with the flow and follow whatever Apple do, they're not innovative. IF they had produce and design their own chip from their owned FAB then they deserved my respect. That is why this new entrepreneurs and CEO just want easy money and prestige, having educated from western institution they thought they're brighter than the rest of us and can be bought by their stupid propaganda, when somebody like Jack Ma who had a teaching degree not technical trying to lecture a gov't official on how to run their institution, you know that something is wrong and that his INFLATED EGO had cloud his judgement.
 

Overbom

Senior Member
Registered Member
That's good, but this is more like the way Apple wants to make their EV. They design it and someone makes it, and despite that arrangement, the company that designed it takes all the credit. Maybe they are hoping Foxconn would go into the EV car business. The other contribution that Xiaomi and Apple can do is to supply the software. This arrangement is similar to what Huawei did.


Why I don't think it won't get far.

Xiaomi is more like packaging, design and life style companies than tech companies. If you want a tech company, look at BYD. They design, manufacture, and patent their batteries. They design, manufacture and patent their IGBT circuits. They build the whole car from top to bottom with a complete stack. BYD is like the Samsung of EVs. Being in control of the entire stack means you can integrate everything along the stack like no one can, control the IP, have control of your supply chains, and have control of your production and profit margins.
Well there is a reason why Xiaomi is careful. And thats because entering the car manufacturing industry is all about blowing billions and billions in the air without being 100% sure that the final product suceeds.

Here is what I think will happen. Xiaomi will start off with just designing the cars and then having another another company to manufacture. If they see that their products has sales and good future prospects, then it will also start entering the car manufacturing industry.

This is a very logical strategy. Dont forget that Xiaomi is a cellphone company, and it must be careful with its cashflow and its investments in other industries. This is why the current approach is good for Xiaomi and if I was a shareholder of them, I would like it.

In the EVs space it is a shark world right now.
 

ansy1968

Major
Registered Member
Well there is a reason why Xiaomi is careful. And thats because entering the car manufacturing industry is all about blowing billions and billions in the air without being 100% sure that the final product suceeds.

Here is what I think will happen. Xiaomi will start off with just designing the cars and then having another another company to manufacture. If they see that their products has sales and good future prospects, then it will also start entering the car manufacturing industry.

This is a very logical strategy. Dont forget that Xiaomi is a cellphone company, and it must be careful with its cashflow and its investments in other industries. This is why the current approach is good for Xiaomi and if I was a shareholder of them, I would like it.

In the EVs space it is a shark world right now.
@Overbom bro they will used a Chinese OEM systems and parts and assign a Car manufacturer to assemble the car and put their badge on it, just like Apple. They will used Huawei system, BYD batteries and let JAC assemble the car, What do they invest and innovate? I'm being a cynic and sarcastic cause Xiaomi is never been known as an innovator, they are just a cheap manufacturer (sorry wrong use of words it should be a seller) of Smartphone and are now trying its hand on EV cause China had many EV based suppliers, Just like I said they follow what Apple is doing, they have NO originality!

Bro their investment is VAPORWARE, I never see them invest in Physical structure like a CHIP FAB and even their chip design never took off, Its a total failure.
 
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