China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread


FairAndUnbiased

Major
Registered Member
So it seems that the rumor is likely to be true at the end of day. But I still we still need more confirmation from official reports on brigades.

Because I think it is very likely PLARF will reconstruct DF-5 organization to be more personnel-effective, will might bring the total DF-5 silos number up to 36, with 18 in each brigades. The same rumor also suggested that 634 BGD wasn't equipped with new silos.

I am wondering why you perceive the solid silos for DF-41. If I remember correctly, the new silo has a 5m internal diameter which is excessively spacious for a 2m diameter DF-41.
Typically you need wider diameter than missile diameter for things like maintenance spaces, exhaust vent shaft, motors and transmission for the door lift mechanism, power distribution, etc.

Titan 2 silos are 55 ft diameter (18 m) for a 3 m diameter missile.

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Minuteman silos are 12 ft (4 m) diameter for a 1.68 m diameter missile.

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It isn't too outlandish for a 5 m silo for 2 m missile.
 

r41

New Member
Registered Member
I used the search funtion but did not find an answer, in case delete the post:

Seen the incredible and unbelievable progress of China space technology only in the last 10 years or so, if China wanted to arm some satellite with ICBM in the next few years what would be the possibility that the US would detect this move ? Would the lauch of an ICBM armed satellite be different from a normal satellite lauch ?
 

henrik

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't know where those "random dudes" ever offered coordinates for their "at least 30 new DF-5C silos".
I had offered the coords for the existing 3x6 DF-5 silos (built in the 70ties for each of the existing SSM BGD - now named 661/631/633) in one of my older posts in this thread.
And I offered the coords of the new DF-5 silos under construction recently in one of my previous posts: 2x4 (for 662 & probably 634 BGD).
I really would appreciate to see coords for more DF-5 silo sites.
Cheers
The locations will not posted here, due to national security reasons. So don't ask for them.
 

Kalec

Junior Member
Registered Member
Typically you need wider diameter than missile diameter for things like maintenance spaces, exhaust vent shaft, motors and transmission for the door lift mechanism, power distribution, etc.

Titan 2 silos are 55 ft diameter (18 m) for a 3 m diameter missile.

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Minuteman silos are 12 ft (4 m) diameter for a 1.68 m diameter missile.

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It isn't too outlandish for a 5 m silo for 2 m missile.
Titan 2 and Minuteman silos were built nearly 6 decades ago. Both of them are hot launched without canister as you need exhaust exits in hot launch, which I think (not sure) it will need more space for the silo. A Minuteman silo can be modified to fit in a Peacekeeper missile even if it is much larger than a MM3. I think the silo dimension might be more relatable to RT-23 silos given that both of them were newly built.

I am skeptical if DF-41 is suitable for silo deployment. DF-41 is a road mobile ICBM, though it is not the case they are deployed in reality and still need hardened ground to launch. It weight, 58 tons, is specifically designed to be restrained by road limit, whereas a silo-based ICBM is not and can be transported stage by stage just as Peacekeeper did.

Financially, Heavy ICBM is more cost-effective than Light/Medium. For example, every DF-41 could carry 3 warheads from Yumen to Manhattan meanwhile a peacekeeper alike can carry 6 warheads with only 1.5 of its cost.

Also in terms of arm control, 330 silos of DF-41s can facilitate around 1,000 warheads and 30 DF-5C will carry another 180 warheads. Still 400 warheads gap to nuclear parity within START treaty.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Major
Registered Member
Titan 2 and Minuteman silos were built nearly 6 decades ago. Both of them are hot launched without canister as you need exhaust exits in hot launch, which I think (not sure) it will need more space for the silo. A Minuteman silo can be modified to fit in a Peacekeeper missile even if it is much larger than a MM3. I think the silo dimension might be more relatable to RT-23 silos given that both of them were newly built.

I am skeptical if DF-41 is suitable for silo deployment. DF-41 is a road mobile ICBM, though it is not the case they are deployed in reality and still need hardened ground to launch. It weight, 58 tons, is specifically designed to be restrained by road limit, whereas a silo-based ICBM is not and can be transported stage by stage just as Peacekeeper did.

Financially, Heavy ICBM is more cost-effective than Light/Medium. For example, every DF-41 could carry 3 warheads from Yumen to Manhattan meanwhile a peacekeeper alike can carry 6 warheads with only 1.5 of its cost.

Also in terms of arm control, 330 silos of DF-41s can facilitate around 1,000 warheads and 30 DF-5C will carry another 180 warheads. Still 400 warheads gap to nuclear parity within START treaty.
Do you think that a hypothetical silo based DF-41 are going to be for cold launch, like the original capsule, or modified for hot launch? That will determine the size.

I also think that the cost and particularly time savings from going with a DF-41 or modernized DF-5 would be worth more than squeezing the last bit of performance out of the silos at the cost of an entire new program requiring multiple full test fires, expenditure of dozens of rocket engines and millions of hours of engineering time.
 

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